Emmons or Zum ?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 13 Apr 2003 2:20 am

I play an Emmons 1980 D 10 P/P at present,& i'm looking to buy a new steel & sell my push pull, for tuning purpose only .
So i am looking to buy a D 10 Lashley II.
But i have heard so many good reports about
Zum steel i dont know what to do.
I got a price off the Emmons web site for a Black mica D 10 Lashley II 7/8.
Does any one know the price on a Zum with the same properties?
So what i need to know is,Keep the push pull
or buy a Lashley II or A Zum?

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 13 Apr 2003 3:37 am

There have been more threads on the Emmons requesting adjustment suggestions and tweaking issues than the Zum. There is not a huge pricing variance between the two but there is about a one year wait for a new Zum. Buddy Charleton is in receipt of a new Zum which caused my hair line to recede another 2 inches from jealously. I played his new guitar and ordered a Zum the following week.
Gary Lee

Mike Kowalik · Post by **Mike Kowalik** » 13 Apr 2003 4:50 am

A Zum D-10 is $3295...I ordered one in January and was told there would be a 10 month wait.

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 13 Apr 2003 5:17 am

I'd buy the Emmons, if I had to have a new one. I have a 1979 Emmons myself, and it isn't for sale. Have the 1980 worked on! You might be sorry if you let it "get away"!

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 13 Apr 2003 6:04 am

I would say,keep what you got.I`v heard from pro`s that even if you get the new Emmons you may get a $hit,some are good but some are not.And I also know people who waited for months on the new Zum and sold it quickly (with losing their money)because they didn`t like it.Your p/p is the best guitar money can buy,don`t do something you`ll be sorry for latter.[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 13 April 2003 at 07:06 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Apr 2003 6:17 am

Buddy Emmons is doing most of his playing these days on a new Emmons. That has to tell you something. Emmons---the guitar most others compare themselves to!
Erv

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 13 Apr 2003 6:28 am

I decided on one of each!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 13 Apr 2003 6:34 am

If you're set on your tuning, the PP would be a safe choice and the least expensive option, but if you want to experiment with copedent changes, you need a modern-type guitar.

Having said that, I've been noticing fewer Emmons LeGrandes on steel shows lately, and more Zumsteels. But I would have no problems owning either brand, except for the fact that I'm quite happy with my Fessenden guitars.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Graham Bland · Post by **Graham Bland** » 13 Apr 2003 6:54 am

Paul

If you are set on buying a new guitar "Emmons" is it. Little Ron is building better guitars than his father ever did. I played what he had in St.Louis last year and in Chattanooga just a couple of weeks ago and they were all excellent guitars
in workmanship and the most important "tone"
"tone""tone""tone""tone""tone", and thats what we are all after.

Those other guitar manufactures won't admit it but, they are all still trying to copy the Emmons guitar TONE but they can't because there is only one.

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Emmons Legrande
Evans Fet 500 LV (early 90's)
Hilton Volume Pedal
[This message was edited by Graham Bland on 13 April 2003 at 07:59 AM.]

Gino Iorfida · Post by **Gino Iorfida** » 13 Apr 2003 7:43 am

When you say 'tuning purposes' do you mean you are having trouble keeping the P/P in tune? or you want to be able to experiment with different tunings? If it's the first, I don't think you'll find a guitar that stays in tune as well as a good p/p. It may just need a good cleanign and adjustment. If it's the latter, keep the push pull, and pick up a decent used all pull, experiment away, and when you settle in on one you like, get the push pull set up that way.
I have nothing against a Lashley, or a Zum, they are both great steels in their right, I just would hate to see someone put all that money out, and still not be happy.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 13 Apr 2003 7:58 am

When will Emmons make a 12 string?

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 13 Apr 2003 8:00 am

The best thing is to visit SGN and Bobbe and try every single one of those 20-30 guitars he has on the floor.I`m sure you`ll find one you like.BUT AGAIN,keep the p/p dude

o, sorry,I didn`t see you`re from Australia.If I was you,I would try that Australian pedal steel,whats the name,Ampeg or something.
I think may be Anapeg but not sure.[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 13 April 2003 at 09:02 AM.][This message was edited by Damir Besic on 13 April 2003 at 09:03 AM.]

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 13 Apr 2003 8:10 am

ZumSteel! Sound great, play easy, never been a bad one ship out of Bruce's shop. The man is impecable. Sorry, Graham...you really need to hear my axe!
RC

kyle reid · Post by **kyle reid** » 13 Apr 2003 8:36 am

All you have to do is ask Hughey, he has the right answer!

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 13 Apr 2003 8:58 am

I would buy the Emmons' LeGrande III, IF I was buying a new D-10. I am not, nor am I buying any guitar. In fact I would never buy another D-10 ever again. It is just totally inadaquate for my needs since acquiring a U-12.

If Emmons were to build a single U12 LeGrande III on a double 12 body; with a changer that had a 5 raise AND 5 lower capability; AND Ron would guarantee me IN writing that the tops of the strings were dead level flat at the nut rollers, I would order one yesterday.

They don't. They won't; and I don't believe they ever will, so it is a moot scenario.

I believe the Zum IS one of the most gorgeious guitars I have seen. Bruce Zumsteg is a wonderful man. I admire and love him like a brother. I can not say enough good things about him.

As I have found on ALL PSG's I have found pros AND cons on the Zum.

However, I must agree that the Emmons' is the guitar that I perceive most buiders copied to come up with their's. So to me, it makes sense then, to go back to the source.

But that is me. You are another thing. Do what YOU feel will make YOU happy,

And may Jesus richly bless you in your quests,

carl

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 13 Apr 2003 4:32 pm

Coming from a p/p Emmons is like no other comparison I can think of. At best you know immediately the loss of highs and tone in general. Not to say the Emmons Legrandes don't have good tone but if you've played the p/p enough to know what it is supposed to sound like when you sit down, the Legrande will seem flat at best. This is coming from a former Legrande II owner. I think they are good guitars and have good tone but the P/P guitars set up right will out perform the all pull Legrandes of any vintage. Get that p/p set-up by someone who knows how if it doesn't suit you but don't sell it. You'll be sorry.

VERNON PRIDDY · Post by **VERNON PRIDDY** » 13 Apr 2003 5:17 pm

I Have Owned Bouth I Now Have A Zum. Great Playing Guitar Don;t Ever Have To Ajust It. Stays In Tune Great Think I'll Keep It Too. SONNY. PS. Also Have A SHO-BUD.

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SONNYPRIDDY

Robert Parent · Post by **Robert Parent** » 14 Apr 2003 3:29 am

I bought my first Zum about 7 years ago. A few weeks later sold the Emmons P/P and have never looked back. There are several nice guitars on the market so buy what you like, for me it's a Zum.

Tommy Detamore · Post by **Tommy Detamore** » 14 Apr 2003 5:35 am

I can't say too much about the new Emmons guitars as I have not played one, but the new Zumsteels are fantastic. I got a new one in July and it sounds great, plays like a dream, and stays in tune incredibly well. And I agree that Bruce Z. is a wonderful man that treats everyone, novice or seasoned pro, with the same respect and fairness. He has always been very reluctant to turn over much of the work on his guitars to others for fear of losing control of the quality. He does have some very good assistance these days but the guitars are still built essentially by the man himself. This is one reason for the wait, which in my opinion you will find it to be well worth it. And the Zum is trouble free and easy to work on yourself, and living in Australia this may be a concern for you. The guitar will arrive ready to play, and will stay that way. And Bruce is always accessible by phone to answer questions and guide you through any changes you would want to make. And BTW, he ships parts very quickly too....

JERRY THURMOND · Post by **JERRY THURMOND** » 14 Apr 2003 1:12 pm

I have had three Zum's in the last 15 years, I never had any problems with any of them, they all played wonderful, an they sure are easy to sell when you go to get a new one. Jerry

Larry Harlan · Post by **Larry Harlan** » 14 Apr 2003 4:12 pm

Not meaning to open a can of worms here, but since the thread IS on "Emmons or Zum," I have a question, albeit possibly a elementary one at best in the eyes of many. But, realizing there are an enormous amount of variables involved, (hands, individual style, amp, etc.), even so---can a person get the 1968 to 1980's Emmons P/P("Nashville" Blade) sound in a Zum? If anyone has significantly accomplished this, how did you do it and what commercially avaliable pickups did you use, E-66's, 910's, 710's, "True Tone," Bruce's factory single coil pickups, or other? I think I've heard some that are very close (at least to my ear), BUT, it seemed something was minutely lacking to be the sound I chase after. I've shown my hearing and incomptence enough here, but just thought I'd see if anyone had done this and felt they had fully accomplished doing so. Best regards.[This message was edited by Larry Harlan on 14 April 2003 at 06:29 PM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 14 Apr 2003 5:32 pm

I do not know if one can get the P/P sound out of a Zum.

But my question is, why would you want to? An Emmons' P/P is unique. If you are seeking THAT sound, the P/P is the way to go I would think?

I personally do not care for them; because to me the sound advantage is far outweighed by the mechanical dissadvantages. But that is me of course. For P/P's lovers, there is NO other guitar. And I am happy for them.

For me it is all pull all the way

carl

Gary Preston · Post by **Gary Preston** » 14 Apr 2003 5:36 pm

paul,,have you looked at a williams ? they are a nice steel and the finish on them is excellent. and the sound is great and they stay in tune as good as the rest. call bill rudolph and talk to him he is easy to talk to (jusy a suggestion).. gary.

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 14 Apr 2003 6:08 pm

First of all, nobody can get the 68 blade sound except Buddy Emmons when he plays the blade. Contrary to popular beleif, all P/Ps don't sound great. I had one P/P and did not like it. Alan Love has it now and does. Between Emmons LG and Zum, hands down ZUM.

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The Steel Dr.
Johnny Cox P.S.D.
MSA Customer Service
www.msapedalsteels.com
www.thetimejumpers.com

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 14 Apr 2003 6:18 pm

Larry...I'm not after the P/P sound with my Zum either. As Carl says, that tone just isn't everyone's cup of tea. The L910's that I ordered on the Zum were a little too dark in the mids for my taste. I put TrueTone's in it and it gives me exactly what I'm looking for. I'm sure it wouldn't be a diehard P/P's favorite tone, but it cranks my tractor! [This message was edited by Roger Crawford on 14 April 2003 at 07:19 PM.]