The Steel Guitar Forum

I am new to this forum so I hope I posted this question in the right place.

I have played music about 35 years for a living on the road and locally. I played bass guitar for years and 6 string in my own groups, but only rhythm, never any lead work to speak of..

Well, I am 66 years old now I have always been infatuated with pedal steel and have always wanted to play one but I had been told so many times how difficult they are to play and learn that I never tried it. Oh I have set down on one a few times and played simple 3 or 4 chord 1,4,5 progression on one. I would be a raw beginner. I no longer play professionally. Just play with my Fender Strat and my 5 string bass at home for my own enjoyment.

What I want to know is I hear a lot of people say "well just go for it". But we are talking a good chunk of change to buy one. Would it be better for me to start on a lap steel or to buy a decent S10? This would just be for my own enjoyment at home.

Thank you all so much for your response,
Steve

I can relate. I'm 60 and have always been afraid of the pedal steel. I finally bought one last month and was surprised at how easy it was to pick it up. It was fairly easy for me because I started out on a six string lap and then added a volume pedal,then worked my way up into an eight string. I just recently graduated to a full blown D-10 with all the pedals.

Learning a little at a time that way made it much easier when it came time to add the pedals and knee levers. But just having experience with bass and guitar is a good start. I can't imagine starting out cold on the pedal steel.

You can get a decent lap steel for under $400 and have a lot of fun with it. Once you're comfortable with that, add a volume pedal or move to an eight string console steel. Once you're comfortable using the bar, the picks and the volume pedal, it's just a matter of learning the pedals and levers.

Well,just go for it ! 😉
First with a cheap lap steel model and a good lap steel course dvd like Cindy Cashdollar's...then when you're ok with blocking and volume pedal and steel bar techniques etc... get yourself a GOOD pedal steel,you'll be surprised how easy it is once
you've mastered some of the non pedal techniques.
Dobro is a good way to start with too.

Steve, a lot depends on your budget and the style of music you want to play. Generally speaking, a lap steel won't relieve the itch, if pedal steel is the sound in your head. I've found my personal favorite in 8 strings, I have pedals don't always reply on them. E9 is possibly the most popular tuning for pedal steel, that's where I started, and I now have completely gotten away from it. I love 6th tunings. If It were me in your shoes, I'd find a good quality 8 string lap steel. If you find out later that 8 strings don't suit you, you can always just string it up with 6 or 7 of em.

There are SO many choices now days... I won't bore you with my preference....you sort of can't go wrong. Welcome to the club

I disagree. If you want to make the pedal steel sounds you will need pedals, bar slants will not satisfy and you will ditch the whole thing from frustration.

If budget is an issue keep your eyes open here on the forum and buy a simple S10 3+4, then find a patient teacher to get you up to speed until you can take it on your own. It's a difficult instrument to master, but many of the sweetest sounding effects are the easiest to pull off.

Thank you all so much for all your great input.

I think I agree with the idea that I probably wouldn't be happy not being able to pull off the true pedal sounds with a lap steel. I am going to keep my eye open for an S10 within my budget of $1500. And I even more agree that I need to find me a teacher or just another player who can show me enough to start seeing progress of some sort. Besides, what else would an old retired musician be doing with his time that would be satisfying?

Again, thank you all so much for all your help. I am glad I joined this forum and too I think I will make good use of it too.

Steve

I have one last question.

I also would like to know your thought between a S10 and a S12 Universal Tuning? Keeping in mind that I am a total beginner.

Thanks so much again for your help

Steve

I would stay away from that 1 knee Sho-Bud.
There's a Simmons for under a Grand.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=273362
Here's a nice BMI
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=272483
If you click on the links up at the upper right corner, stage one steels are new for about a grand, but there is q wait, as production lags demand.
I think Fred Justice and Mullen offer new guitars in your budget as well.

Does the C6 (mainly used in jazz and western swing) also trip your trigger?
If so, a uni would make sense.

Steve Lafferty wrote:I have one last question.

I also would like to know your thought between a S10 and a S12 Universal Tuning? Keeping in mind that I am a total beginner.

Thanks so much again for your help

Steve

If you can make a trip to Southern California, you might benefit from a trip to Jim Palenscar's store, Steel Guitars of North County, in Oceanside. He always has a good number of used guitars in stock, of various types and makes, and can show you something about what the different features do.

Another thing you can do, before getting a steel guitar, is get Winnie Winston's book and do your best to figure out in advance how the steel guitar works. That was how I got started - it gave me a basis for believing I could learn to play the instrument with a reasonable amount of effort, and for deciding that for me it would be best to start with a universal tuning.

Steve L. and Ron L. I would be glad to help you both get started in pedal steel.
That's what I'm here for, to help others.
If you fellers will email me your phone number I will be happy to call you and discuss your future in pedal steel guitar. God bless you and I hope to hear from you soon.
My email is, fredsmusic@q.com

Steve Lafferty wrote:I have one last question.

I also would like to know your thought between a S10 and a S12 Universal Tuning? Keeping in mind that I am a total beginner.

Thanks so much again for your help

Steve

I had an S10 3x4 for my first year, and then acquired a U12, and I felt I bonded so much more with the U12. I recently acquired a fully loaded D10 with a full set of knee levers on the C6 neck, which I love, but on the E9 neck, honestly prefer the lower string ranges offered by a 12 string tuning.

Ultimately, I think i'm headed for a D12 or an E6/9 universal tuning..although having a U12 setup next to a D10 is a pretty thorough practise room setup.

I think a U12 is a great place to start and if you struggle with converting typical E9 instructional material to compensate for the lack of the middle D string, just refit the guitar to an extended E9 tuning.

Given that you also play bass, I think you would prefer the broader range and ability to do some bassline (moreso cello) work on a U12 or Extended E9 tuning...lots of fun, particularly when you're jamming without a bass player in the room.

If you go uni and like playing bass lines and the modern pedal steel sounds, I recommend a ”zero pedal" to the left of the A pedal, that raises 1&2 to G# and E, and also raises 10 to A and lowers 12 to A.
Gives easier access to those "Baritone Tele" parts.

Steve, a lot of great advice you've been given here and I'll echo what John A. advised...if possible, sit down behind a few steels and try to get the best fit/feel possible. One specific suggestion, try to sit behind an S-10 and an SD-10...the SD-10 is often referred to as a "Loafer" but many a Pro has made some great music "loafing"! You'll love learning and playing pedal steel especially with your musical background. Good luck...Carl

My 2 cents... I would not start with a lap steel for reasons stated and wider string spacing. One of the things you will need to get used to is the closer string spacing of the psg.

If it were me, i would not start with a 12 string universal. Too many strings to look at for a beginner. Also, less instructional material is available for universal. Once you reach a level of comfort on E9, there is plenty of good material available on getting C6 sounds on E9. You can't get the lower notes but it's still satisfying. If later on you decide to learn C6, you can choose between a D-10 or universal. My biggest regret is not going to a universal 12 at that point, but thats a discussion for another day.

Steve,

One question no one has brought up: How tall are you?

This matters greatly if you are shorter than 5'7" or taller than 6'1 or 2" A pedal steel needs to fit you. I bought my first pedal guitar...a Carter Starter...without asking this question. At the time, they had no kit to raise one, so I sent it back and bought a used pro model. I'm 6'4" and MUST raise my steels 2" and use a thinner volume pedal (Goodrich L-120) or my legs don't fit under the guitar. You can also lower a steel if it's too tall for you.

Otherwise, I agree with the others, unless you want to play non-pedal styles exclusivly, get a nice S-10 or U-12. You can play about any style on them, even the non-pedal stuff.

Howard, I agree about the lap steel making a poor stepping stone.
Disagree about the uni and the lack of instructional materials.
1: most instruction underserves the 9th string, sadly.
2: most unis raise 9 to B and P6 drops 8 to B. A student of MODEST clevertude will go through tab in advance, and mark any uses of the E9th D string with a highlighter. It might take him/her time to figure out whether P6 or a raised B will work better.
Come to think of it, why didn't the uni evolve to put P6 on the end? Arranging them 8,5,7,6 has only 5&6 doublefooted, and makes it easy to have a D string with A and B pedals.

What everyone has advised so far makes good sense.
A persons understanding of music theory will go a long way to success with pedal steel guitar.

If you have played professionally to a high level, then I would not call you a complete beginner.

With you tube and Skype you have access to just about any teacher or technician that is willing.

When I got started I ignored advice from professionals and almost nearly gave up on it for lack of decent equipment. Do yourself a favor, talk to Everyone you can, but when successful pros give advice, they are telling you straight.

My 2 cents....get yourself a good quality pro instrument, proper stool height, volume pedal, amp, tone bar and picks. Find a good teacher over Internet or in person. In all honesty, I wasted a lot of time, effort and money on student equipment initially. For my money, a good used S10 from several quality builders and resellers is definitely within your budget. You can find for example, a S10 Dekley, MSA, Sho Bud pro 1, there are others. I saw a S12 MSA go for $1200 just yesterday.

There are lots of good resources right here on this forum.

I would echo the advice of sitting down behind as many as possible and consider the ergonomics. You have to be comfortable, relaxed, then your mind is free to explore the pleasure of pedal steel.

Well, you just have to experience it, am I right fellers?

Steve
I can't help you with the lap part of this question but I can share my experience of learning the PSG.
This year, at age 60, I decided to learn a musical instrument for the first time and I purchased a PSG. After researching the question of what to buy I purchased a used Zum Stage One for $900, knowing that the demand for resale was good. This is a good instrument and I would still have it but I found a used SD-10 Fessenden 3x5 for a price too good to pass up. I easily and quickly sold the Stage One.
I have been mixing PSG instructional DVD's (Joe Wright, Jeff Newman) with music theory courses including some directly built for E9 10 string PSG(Mark van Allen). I'm building my knowledge from the ground-up. I envy your years of professional music experience.
All said, I am having a blast learning to play.
I have also looked at the E9 vs U12 question and I believe I will travel down the U12 road at some point in the future but it seems that the vast majority of instructional material is built for E9. I will utilize that until I have more of the basics under my belt and am ready for the U12 challenge.
If you like the pedal sound, find a pro level instrument that you can easily resell, take the plunge and know that you can change course as the need arises. Enjoy the process.
The Forum is a good community.

I could be wrong, but I'd guess most Universal (E9/B6) players started out with some grasp of what the E9 and the C6 could do, and then found that the U12 was a "reasonable" compromise to lose necks and weight. But, most U12 players also come to the conclusion that it's "one tuning" that can morph into whatever notes and styles are needed in the moment. Also, to really get into it without Universal learning materials a person would need E9 and C6 materials, with the C6 stuff being transposed a fret lower to B6 and the pedals being understood as maybe in a different order.

David,

I believe you are right. That is the conclusion I came to earlier after listening to all the good advice from everyone here. I am so glad I became a member of SGF.

I will start checking out this forum, sales, to see what is out there since we have no PSG shops here in Las Vegas.

Thank you so much for all your imput,

Steve

Some of you veterans might chime in about while he is looking for a steel about the different copedents to look for and why, how much instructional material for type of setup. Even I having played in the past was some what unaware of the differences. I mean there are mostly Emmons ped set up but there are some Day set ups for sell and one I would call kind of Emmons with a 3 ped in 1 position....not sure what you call that. I leave the knee lever thing to you guys. Even though a guy might not know what is what...being informed is always good. The reason I might mention that is that affordable used steels come in all kinds of set ups. Not to be throwing a monkey wrench here...just good to know. Steve these guys can help you. I am older guy too and I studied this quite a bit and joined this forum to get informed. You have made a good decision to join this and get informed. Don't get too hung up on this but know about it and jump in...lol.

to make serious inroads that would satisfy the musical standards of somebody who has become proficient at other instruments supported by 35 years of playing, I would say aside from money, you should be prepared to invest 2-3 hours a day, just about everyday, to get to a point in two years of feeling like, "now I don't suck too bad", and be able to play along with some simple chord progressions with decent intonation and actually add to a song. You will know pretty quickly if you are going to get addicted enough to put the effort in.

Wayne, the exact setup isn't a big deal. Most of the changes are mostly standard, and where they are isn't crucial. I can sit down at a Day guitar and make sense of it. The important thing is just get a fairly normal guitar and start learning it.

Lane you are correct. I wasn't trying to confuse the gentleman. What I noticed after I got mine was that lot of instructional material was primed for full Emmons setup. I had to figure out with my Sho Bud setup how to translate it. Not hard to do and made me a better theory guy. Steve will do great no matter what he chooses and this place is a good place for him to study up on things. I know you and others have helped me and I thank you for that.