The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **10 Mar 2003 5:43 am**

Have you ever wondered if the reverb is used to mask bad messy playing?With the reverb turned way up to where it alters the guitar sound the string attack just sounds like it all just runs together.A nice test is turn the reverb off and listen to how you really sound.If you sound great then you have passed the test.Today more players sound like dental chair music not good pedal steel playing.
It also seems sad to see so many who can only play runs and fills.Try mastering songs.If you cant play songs why not learn one today.

Posted: **10 Mar 2003 7:19 am**

Well I kinda agree and disagree Andy... I agree too much reverb sounds bad and some players may use it to compensate for lousy technique... but I also think the right amount of reverb or echo sounds better than completely dry. My usual technique is to use more reverb or echo during a really slow ballad with lots of glides, and much less on a song where I'm doing faster picking. I think that's pretty much normal for most players......what does boggle my mind tho, is that as much as I can't stand to play completely dry, (had to once when my reverb on my Twin broke, ugh!) many of the old players that played in the '50's played steel with no reverb at all and tho it's dry, they still sound great. So, in that way I agree with you; a great player with no reverb still sounds great, a crappy player with it and all the best gear in the world still for the most part sounds crappy. Of course this is just my opinion. Practicing with little or no reverb is a good way to clean up a player's technique.

Posted: **10 Mar 2003 7:43 am**

Jim
I agree with you too.I use reverb but not in the place of clean string attack.I start out playing without reverb to see how I really sound and then add the reverb as I practice. We have so many players who need to listen to great steel by Bud,Leon,Roy and Don before there was reverb.I think the new players can learn from life before reverb.Reverb is the big coverup that can be the local steel club crutch.How do I sound without reverb that is my test.Do I play well or not?[This message was edited by Andy Alford on 10 March 2003 at 07:47 AM.]

Posted: **10 Mar 2003 7:59 am**

Andy, thanks for reminding us:
Just pick a song you like and get on with it!
That put me right in my place.

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

Posted: **16 Mar 2003 10:25 am**

Yup.

Even worse than reverb is the "compressor". Used an Orange Squeezer for a while, and it really punched out the single note stuff, but it really raised hell with my "technique" after a week or so.

Gotta admit though that I'm one of the worst offenders. I finally got an RV3, after 20 or more years of no effects save the peavey phase shifter in the 500. (Didn't use it much at( all. Now I use the RV3 a lot. So shoot me.

It does make practicing a lot more comfortable, and some of those "farewell party" rides and passages sound pretty stupid without " a little too much" reverb.

I have recorded "dry" with the idea of adding it later, and somehow it just doesn't seem as good. I don't know why.

EJL

Posted: **16 Mar 2003 10:36 am**

"How Do You Really Sound?"

Terrible!

carl

Posted: **16 Mar 2003 10:36 am**

As some of you know, I've been playing in an original rock band for the past two years. Last Friday night, the guitarist urged me to "use the volume pedal" on our ballads now and then. He said that it was part of what people expect from a pedal steel.

Actually, I use the volume pedal continuously, and properly (I hope), to keep my level constant while sustaining a passage. What he wanted was obvious use of the volume pedal to create a "swell" sound. He also wanted more reverb, as part of the effect.

So, I did it. In one of the slow songs, I boosted the reverb and squeezed every note through the pedal. There were big grins all around in the band. They really got a kick out of it. Myself, I thought it sounded really corny, but in the context of a rock band it was a real novelty.

I've always played with a fairly dry sound. I want to hear my hands, to know if I'm on pitch or not. Too much reverb or echo makes me sloppy. Chorus is the worst - it actually messes with the pitch. I never use a chorus effect.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Posted: **16 Mar 2003 1:45 pm**

I don't believe reverb covers up anything, it only enhances it (if used properly). On the other hand, I do know that a chorus can help to cover up something that's a little "pitchy". In the final analysis, though, your true playing ability eventually shows through, no matter what "gimmicks" you choose to employ.

Even though I'm not a real good player, I can tell who is a good player...and who's not!

Posted: **16 Mar 2003 2:50 pm**

Interesting answers.

Too much reverb sounds mushy to me. I have played many gigs with only delay, but seem to always gravitate back to some verb, since I don't really like delay on every tune, even if it's very subtle. I'll use very little verb on uptempo tunes and tend to gravitate toward a slapback delay -- real quick with one repeat.

Eric and b0b also bring up interesting points. Effects like comp and verb can both be used as effects and as AMBIENCE. I tend to use a BUNCH of compression on a single string jazzy solo to punch up the front end of the attack curve -- but only on a few tunes a night. I'll also use buckets of verb (as Eric so poetically puts it) on certain slow songs, along with a liberal dose of slow delay with more repeats than usual (4 or 5 vs 3). I use a teeeeeeeny bit of reverb and compression most of the time, but not enough to notice -- or not enough to compromise the cleanliness of the signal. If I'm using them for what I call ambience, the objective is for the fx to meld into the sound of the guitar and to be as unnoticeable as possible. When I'm using either as an effect, there's NO DOUBT I'm using them.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Posted: **16 Mar 2003 3:06 pm**

To Bobby Lee--Thanks for the CD Bobby. Your steel work was nice and easy on the ears--as usual; I like your tone. Your solos on the Blues tune were nice and clean, as was the entire recording, also Fred did a fine job on his solos. Best, Hugh

Posted: **16 Mar 2003 4:19 pm**

When you play an instrument live in a room, there is a natural interaction with the space.
When you put a mic in front of the amp you effectively cut off that space. You can put another mic out for the room also, but not in many situations, like a live gig with PA.

So the subtle use of reverb restores a controlable variation of some thing natural that is missing by the close micing.
Mixed higher than this naturalness replacement, it becomes affected.
Believe me without a slight suspician of reverb during a vocalist recording your singer wears out so much faster, because something is, unconsiously in many cases, throwing them off in the headphone mix... an un-natural lack of SPACE.

With the fine reverbs available today for reasonable prices, you can get any number of replacement spaces, that YOU control, not the soundman who may not know PSG from Cream of Wheat

Posted: **18 Mar 2003 3:58 am**

Effects, any of them, are part of the oeverall playing ability and sound texture.

A tad of reverb on the Steel does bring out some ambiance and presence.

When used appropriatley, effects are great, when used incorrectly..they ain't great.

I have found that many folks , regardless of Instrument, do not practice with effects and when the gig shows up they wing it, and it sounds like it.

Guitar overdrive / distortion is a major example just like reverb and delay. If you don't practice with it and get your sound intact you're better off without it. I have alsways prescribed to the theory that less is more anyway.

tp

Posted: **19 Mar 2003 3:09 pm**

I like to play using a bit of compression, with a touch of delay....Actually delay and reverb are kinda close, so with delay, I need no reverb....As b0b was mentioning about "squeezeing" the notes out with the volume pedal, I really enjoy doing that, and use it as it's called, an "Expression" pedal...I use it as an effect and can really get a steel to cry using it with just the right technique..
It also helps when pinching notes for nice harmonics..I can play without the volume pedal, but I feel ( along with people who hear me play) that my music is much more expressive, and more interesting to listen to with the volume pedal....Jim