The Steel Guitar Forum

My plight (briefly).

I have played guitar and keyboards for 25+ years. I do not live in PSG country. There are no stores that have playable PSG's on display (ALL that I have seen are untuned, mechanical junk). I have learned a great deal from this forum, but I am jumping in mid-stream. The best thing for me would be to sit down with a knowledgeable player (very subjective) and the instrument and have them answer all my questions. This could take a while, and thus is a lot to ask.

Is there a good DVD that can explain the following (I don't care if it's a 10 hour documentary. So be it!):

1. What are the pedals called and what do they do? What are the options and the limitations? I've seen many references but only in the jargon of the experienced. Slang and jargon is not what I want. This is interesting, but not helpful for a beginner.

2. I only want a single neck. I have a Fender S-6 lap that I use for what I currently play. Maybe I need a double. I don't know.

3. Tunings. E9th seems to be the starting point. I know what it is, but I have yet to hear what it is.

4. Carl G. has a great Sho-Bud ProI that I like for sale. I want it because my pro hero uses one. That's not really a well-informed reason, and I don't want to waste his time.

If I had one available, I would make it work. But a $1000 minimum cost needs to be on the right track. Thanks in advance!<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Paul Osbty on 12 March 2003 at 10:58 AM.]</p></FONT>

I understand it is hard to get past "jargon" particularly phrases bandied about on the forum like "Day or Emmons Pedals" "Franklin Lever" etc...but it is almost impossible to describe without some arcana...there is unfortunately no DVD that will hep you to the jive- this forum is aboout the best place on the planet to get questions answered.

I am sure others will jump in too, but here is a start on what I think you are asking:

E9th Chromatic "Nashville" tuning: called chromatic because instead of a straight strum-across chord there are "chromatic" scale tone notes on some strings. It is called "Nashville" because it is the tuning played on the majority of recordings emmanating from that Music City.

Basic 10 string E9th chromatic tuning has three floor pedals labled "A" "B" "C". They have specific functions within the tuning:
<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
...............A ...... B.........C........KL "E"..... KL "F"
01. F#
02. D#
03. G#.................+A
04. E..............................+F#....... -Eb............+F
05. B.........+C#..................+C#
06. G#.................+A
07. F#
08. E......................................... -Eb..........+F
09. D
10. B........ +C#

</pre></font> pardon the alinement...

Chromatic notes on strings 01. and 02. are lower in pitch than strings 03. and 04. it's a historical thing.

The above pedal arrangement A B C is called "Emmons" pedals because that's how Buddy Emmons plays them (another historical thing)
sometimes the function of A and C are reversed- this is called "Day" pedals because that's how legend Jimmy Day played (another historical thing)

the two knee levers may be physically placed in different places, but the function of lowering both e's a half step and raising them a half step is pretty standard.

you can "hear" E9th by going to Rebel and Ricky's Real Audio pages and clicking on almost any clip from about 1962 on...

Generally slow country tunes with long glissandi, or faster tunes with "chicken picking" is E9th

Swing and Jazz are generally C6th.


admiring the brand your pro hero plays is probably how the majority of us started... I know I did.

the type of music you hope to play may help determine whether a single neck or double is what you need. IMO you can hardly go wrong with a Single neck 10 stringer with the basic tuning listed above for learning.

there are options for beginners now; besides a wide variety of used instruments there is the Carter Starter entry level machine...
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 12 March 2003 at 12:16 PM.]</p></FONT>

Hi, Paul, welcome to steelland, and the same quandry all of us faced to some degree when starting out. First off, check in on the online steeler's directory http://www.onlinesteelers.com/
for people in your area, many of whom would be more than happy to meet with you and answer questions. I frequently have people come by my studio for just that kind of Q&A. (If you're ever near Atlanta, call me 770-972-9013). As far as the sound of steel tunings goes, if you listen to any commercial country radio, most of what you hear is being played on the (relatively standard) E9 tuning. You'll only occaisionally hear any extensive playing these days, unless you can find a country oldies show... if you have an "Alternative" country collection or can get that kind of radio on the net or your cable TV, you'll hear a lot more of the retro rockabilly-ish stuff, again mostly on E9, although the swinging stuff of bands like Big Sandy, Ray Condo, Biller and Wakerfield, etc. may feature non-pedal steel in 6th and 13th tunings. You'll soon learn to recognize the characteristic sounds of the pedal moves on the E9th tuning. For a good video overview, search the forum here for info on the recent Tommy White/ Lloyd Green video, absolutely stellar classic country E9 playing- or the Buddy Emmons live concert videos from Denver and Boston, where you'll get to hear his fantastic stylings an both E9 and C6. There's a lot of other great video stuff out
from classic non pedal stuff (check "western swing" on ebay) to live rock steel- Dire Strait's "On the Night" tour is available overseas (ebay) on video CD, and really showcases Paul Franklin's masterful use of mostly E9 in a rock setting. I have a spare copy of that one if you can't find it... There are some great compilations of several Players at concerts and festivals where you can compare tones and styles- on any of the video stuff, if you see someone playing a doubleneck steel with pedals, literally 99% of the time the front neck will be E9 and the rear neck (toward the player) will be C6, and that way you can tell the different approaches apart. Go to the links page on my site for steel accesories dealers who stock this stuff, and often have extensive descriptions. As far as your question #1 goes, Jeff Newman has some GREAT video lessons that address those exact questions, again a link on my site. Best of luck!

------------------
C'mon by and visit!- www.markvanallen.com

My Band: www.sugarlandmusic.com

Wow, Dave, now we're even posting at the same time... I got a package addressed to you the other day- but it was actually for me... and Paul, welcome to another forum oddity, the vanAllen brothers who have never met...

------------------
C'mon by and visit!- www.markvanallen.com

My Band: www.sugarlandmusic.com

Psychic Fiends Network



------------------

"I AM Z-BOY!"


<small>Zumsteel U12 "Loafer" 8&6 :: ZB Custom D-10 :: Fender Tube Amplification
www.voicenet.com/~vanallen/ :: vanallen@voicenet.com :: www.lasttrainhome.com

Paul, another way to answer your question briefly and roughly is to tell you what the strings and pedals do musicaly. Six of the ten strings of the E9 neck are tuned to an open E major chord. If you stay on those strings you can play any major chord by moving the bar to the appropriate fret, just as if you were doing "F type" barre chords up and down the neck of a regular guitar.

When you press the AB pedals (which were originally one pedal) certain strings are pulled to the right notes to change to an A chord, the subdominat IV. If you move up two frets with the pedals still down you have B, the dominant V chord. Back at the open E chord, if you activate the A pedal you get the relative minor, C# minor in this case. So you can get the 3 or 4 chord backbone of most songs very easily, and without having to jump around on the neck. Plus, you get that twangy sound as you change pitch with the pedals (known in music theory as a gliss).

The extra strings give you a major 7th and a 9th chord. The two top out-of-sequence strings allow you to get some E scale notes not in the open chord. By combining the pedals, knee levers, and extra strings you can play a major or minor scale and some accidentals without moving the bar. The reason the top two strings are put up there out of sequence is to keep them out of the way for playing chords. Also, that arrangement allows you to pick runs easily alternating the thumb and another finger (with finger picks you can't double pick runs like you can with a flat pick).

By happenstance the pedals and levers designed for the above purposes turn out to provide other interesting possibilities. For example, if you go to the fret for the 5th chord and press down the AB pedals you get the tonic chord. By playing at that position rather than back down at the open string tonic fret you can use the pedals to get that twangy sound we all love (or hate) that is so characteristic of country pedal steel. Also, up at the 5th chord fret the B and C pedals together will give you a twangy relative minor chord, also a 6th chord. This is the basics. The other pedals and levers give all sorts of chords all over the neck. It boggles the mind.

The E9 neck is designed for basic major and minor chord stuff, other things are available but are less convenient, and that gives the neck its characteristic sound and playing styles.

I'm no expert on the C6 neck, but it is designed for Western swing and jazz playing. The 6th chord is the characteristic train whistle sound of Western swing. Also, there are three notes in common with a 6th chord and the relative minor chord of the same key. For example A is the 6th of the key of C. A, C, and E are found in both the C6th chord and the A minor chord. So This tuning makes both 6th chords and minor chords easy to get (a 13th tuning mentioned by someone above is simply a 6th tuning with the 6th at the top of the chord rather than in the middle). The strings on the C6 neck are arranged such that lots of different chords are available on 3 or more adjacent strings (not always the case with the E9 neck), so you can pick chords and arpeggios fast, as well as strum them. The pedals and levers are designed to give a lot of jazz chords. This all gives this neck its characteristic fat, complex chord sound.

Jim Cohen calls the E9 neck the "pretty neck" and C6 the "fun neck." In other words a lot of steelers earn their living playing pretty E9 stuff for the public, then when they get bored with that they play less commercial swing and jazz for their own amusement (no offense to serious swing and jazz players, but you know what I mean). The 12-string universal neck combines about 90% of the E9 neck and 80% of the C6 neck in one E9/B6 universal neck. While you may loose that 10 or 20%, you also gain a bunch of new stuff not available on either of the other necks - that happenstance stuff. By having everything on one neck it's a little more complicated but a little less schizophrenic, if that makes any sense.

I hope this overview gives you a good picture. If you know a little music, it can be very instructive to take the standard E9 copedent (the chart of the strings, pedals and levers) available at Carter and other sites, and transpose it into the key of C. That will make it easier for you to see how the strings, pedals, and levers give you the basic chords and scale in the key of C (the white keys on a piano). <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David Doggett on 12 March 2003 at 12:06 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David Doggett on 12 March 2003 at 12:21 PM.]</p></FONT>

Dave, Dave and Mark A nice concise little tutorial. It should be saved and handed out to any "Newbies" that wander in with befuddled expressions. Bravo!

Thanks for coming down to my level. I sometimes enjoy restating the basics of other instruments. It helps me refocus.

From the chart above, I don't understand the B pedal. It looks like the A pedal raises both B strings (5, 10) to C#. The B pedal raises both G# strings (3, 6) to G#? I've brilliantly surmised this is not an octave raise!

To be sure, 1 to 10 is from High to Low.

TYPO CHECK

pedal B raises G# half step to A... sorry for the confusion I was so busy trying to get them to line up I botched the changes...

yes 1-10 high to low (except for 1 & 2 as stated)

pluck strings 345 or 456 at fret zero you have an E chord... press pedals A & B you get an A chord

moving up the neck you get the same at each fret as playing E barre chords and A barre chords on standard guitar

Pedal A alone gives the relative minor of the open chord. Pedal B gives a Sus4. Pedal C (with B)gives the ii minor of the open chord. and it just gets more involved from there<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 12 March 2003 at 06:33 PM.]</p></FONT>

Thanks, Dave. That's what I thought. I'll call Eddie Van Halen back and tell him an octave raise isn't possible!

Are the rest of the pedal options named (such as D, E F, etc.)?

Bravo, Dave......Super!
Just one thing though, Am I nuts, or did the "Little Green Men" take the 2nd string,(D#) and "Steel" the knee lever that lowers the D# (Eflat) to a D? I didn't see where a knee lever makes that change. Tell me I'm NUTS, OK? You Guys are GREAT at helping the "NewBEEs"
Back 30 years ago, what I would have done to get SUCH GREAT INFO.

re: the D# lower to D...you can always have MORE changes-I couldn't live without that one myself, but for simplicity's sake I went for the most basic standard changes...

<SMALL>Are the rest of the pedal options named (such as D, E F, etc.)?</SMALL>

yes- the e lower a half lever is genrally "E" (go figure):
the e half step raise is "F"- that make sense mnemonically... there are others, but I'm not sure we all agree on them- that's the great thing about standards-there are so many of them....

So, from left to right (from the players view) the pedals are A, B, C through... what?

I hate to keep asking questions, but I can't seem to find these basic principles addressed anywhere.

You all are a great help.

You might try this video even though the production quality is not as good as it will be shortly.

The video is geared towards 6-string players but works well for key board guys also.
http://www.steelguitar.com/resource/videos/vids6sting.html

John Fabian
www.steelguitar.com

There is now quite a bit of beginner's learning material out there (there wasn't when many of us started). I think Winnie Winston's book "Pedal Steel Guitar" is a pretty good starting point for a novice. Good luck on the pedal steel adventure! Boo

Hey, thanks. There just isn't a store around here that has anything for me to buy or look at. I will have to do all my learning over the Internet. At some point I'll just have to plunge and buy a steel from somebody somewhere.

A B C 4 5 6 7 8

Bingo! Whaddya mean..."hold all cards"?

.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Garth Highsmith on 09 January 2006 at 08:31 PM.]</p></FONT>