Keyless?

Kevin Quick · Post by **Kevin Quick** » 17 Sep 2014 8:45 am

Just want to get some feedback on this. A friend of mine is going to buy a new GFI and is considering going with a keyless. Pros? Cons?

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 17 Sep 2014 9:37 am

Shorter. Lighter. Rock solid tuning.

Looks even a little more extraterrestrial.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 17 Sep 2014 9:47 am

Kevin, have you gone to the GFI website where the features and benefits are explained? Pretty much says it all.

I have
a GFI s-10 Ultra keyless. Takes some getting used to, and yeah, it doesn't look "normal," but it is a a well-designed and engineered system.

Fred Rushing · Post by **Fred Rushing** » 17 Sep 2014 3:38 pm

I considered going to a keyless Williams a few years ago. I called williams and had a talk with them. I told them my thoughts about wanting to make the change. They told me that if you have always played a keyed model it was ALMOST impossible to make the switch. Just doesn't LOOK right and we just can't make the change. That has been their experience.

That was my experience. Others may disagree. I took their advice and stayed with the keyed model.

Fred

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 17 Sep 2014 4:18 pm

I have had 3 keyed guitars and one keyless. I had absolutely no problem adjusting to the keyless after my Emmons D-10. It "looked funny" for a couple of months, but after that, it looked normal. After having the keyless for about 10 years, when I got another guitar with keys, it "looked funny". All that wasted space with all those tuning keys just looked unnecessary.

I like the keyless better. I could change a string faster, tune down to a note as well as up, and it didn't break strings. From a physics standpoint, you can't beat just grab a hold and pull. Just like a tug of war in my mind. Wrapping around a peg and having a geared key to just pull a string straight is way over engineered, but it is necessary with a keyed instrument.

You have to use a tuning tool of some sort to tune a keyless or to replace a string. This was never an issue for me. I had several of the keys around me. In my shirt pocket, in my pack a seat, in my car, etc. I even carried a proper size allen wrench in my billfold. I was never going to be without a tuning tool, no matter what.

In theory, because of the shorter string length, it should have less sustain, but I don't think this is really true in the real world. I think most of the sustain is from the nut to the bridge, not much sustain that matters is to be gained behind the bridge, in my opinion.

The shorter length of the keyless means it is "stiffer" and doesn't flex as much when you depress the pedals. This means less de-tuning.

I had a Kline universal keyless. The case looked more like a saxophone case or something, not a steel guitar case. Really small looking. If I were buying a new guitar and the builder offered keyless vs. keyed, I would go for keyless without hesitation. I have always had to buy used guitars, so I have had to take what was available, although the Kline, I did buy new.

Keyed vs. keyless is not a big issue in my opinion. Been there, done that both ways.Both systems do what they are supposed to. And as far as looks goes, what does it matter, really? It's all about sound and solid, dependable mechanics that stay in tune that counts.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 17 Sep 2014 5:35 pm

They told me that if you have always played a keyed model it was ALMOST impossible to make the switch. Just doesn't LOOK right and we just can't make the change. That has been their experience.

That's BS. It's hard to believe Bill would have said that. I had two ZB's, then a Kline Keyless. Absolutely no problem or having to re-adjust. I could jump between my Kline, a ZB and a Super-Pro with no problems at all. I actually had more of a problem adjusting to a Williams keyed guitar.

On the subject of sustain, my Kline would sustain what seemed like forever. A lot longer than my Super-Pro, and even my Carter when I first got it.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 17 Sep 2014 7:28 pm

On the GFI you need a screwdriver to change strings, but do not have to have anything to tune. I think it's a pretty nice system.

http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/Pages ... System.htm

Larry Lorows · Post by **Larry Lorows** » 18 Sep 2014 4:25 am

My Williams is keyless, and it's the best guitar I've ever owned. Believe me, I've had a few of them. If I needed another steel, it would be a keyless Williams.

Larry Lorows · Post by **Larry Lorows** » 18 Sep 2014 4:25 am

My Williams is keyless, and it's the best guitar I've ever owned. Believe me, I've had a few of them. If I needed another steel, it would be a keyless Williams.

Fred Rushing · Post by **Fred Rushing** » 18 Sep 2014 5:37 am

Fellas Looks count and it is not BS to everyone. That is the reason alot of US haven't made the switch. It is still a personal choice and we all have our own opinions and they vary.

My post was my experience and was put out there for the benefit of the question. The conversation was true and again its not BS as some would say.

Fred

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 18 Sep 2014 7:44 am

To me, a keyless guitar reminds me of when we used to chop the head off a rooster for Sunday dinner.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 18 Sep 2014 7:58 am

"On the GFI you need a screwdriver to change strings, "

I'd immediately change those phillips head screws to Allen head cap screws. Last thing I'd want is to have a Phillips driver slip. An Allen won't slip out, or strip out.
Kline guy here. Took me one day to switch from a Shobud D-10 to a Kline Uni-12. Great sound, great sustain, great playability, undetectable cab drop. A wonderfully engineered and built guitar!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 18 Sep 2014 8:02 am

"To me, a keyless guitar reminds me of when we used to chop the head off a rooster for Sunday dinner. Whoa!"

Erv, you still hand-crankin' your car to start it? 8^) Just kidding!

Joseph Carlson · Post by **Joseph Carlson** » 18 Sep 2014 8:06 am

I had a keyless U12 GFI for about a year. I thought the system worked really well. I could change 12 strings in a relatively short amount of time. Only reason I don't still have it is that I went back to a D10. Overall, I was pretty impressed with the quality of the GFI.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 18 Sep 2014 9:10 am

John,
No I just get someone to give me a push.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 18 Sep 2014 9:12 am

"No I just get someone to give me a push."

I had a VW bus like that once. The compression was so low, you only had to push it a few feet!

Steve English · Post by **Steve English** » 18 Sep 2014 9:12 am

I've always wanted to put a keyless tuner on my Stage One, and then cut the guitar and pedal board down to the shortest size possible.

I like the super narrow, compact, lightweight look.

I'm convinced there wouldn't be a discernible difference in tone.

I would only consider the most compact tuners as even an inch makes a difference, ie; a Kline as opposed to the GFI.

If I could find the right keyless tuner at the right price........