The Steel Guitar Forum

I'm new to the Forum and the steel guitar. I am currently playing an MCI D10. I had a question relating to tonality past the 12th fret. As I reach higher than that point, my sound changes dramatically. It becomes much more hollow and tinny, almost sounding reonator-ish. Is this purely a left hand issue? I believe I am dampening the strings properly. I've already lowered my pick-up to address some unrelated distortion issues. Any thoughts? Anyhow, I'm truly loving the instrument.
Bob, I figured it's time to pester someone else with my dopey questions.

Hey man--that you? From Hank's with the grooves in your changer fingers? E me or talk to me this Sunday. Bring your guitar over to my place some time (just a couple of blocks from Hank's) and we'll see what's up. A lot of guitars don't ring at their best in their upper frets. It might just be what it be. Or it could be that you are losing some tone at living room level that would be a bit closer to true at higher levels.

Oh--and if you're not the dude I've been talking with at the bar, no matter--offer still stands--and believe it or not there's another cat in Brooklyn w/ MCI that I was talking with. And if you are, sorry for my lack of name recognition---my brain ain't at it's best in a barroom.

Jon is correct.

It depends on the particular guitar; AND whether that guitar is a keyless or keyed. Some guitar simply exhibit greater tone after the 12 fret than others. My 3'7 Rickenbacher is incredibly good in this area. After playing my PSG's for a while and then going to it, I am amazed at the improvement in tone and sustain after the 12th fret and decidedly so on my Rick.

The worst steel I ever had for it was my keyless Sierra. One pro had the SAME problem and after receiving a keyless, had the manufacturer take it back and exchange it for a keyed guitar with EVERY thing else identical. His sustain improved markedly.

I have found the exact same phenomenon. But getting back to your specific problem; IF its not the guitar, and if it is not because it is keyless, then it could very well be worn and/or grooved changer fingers and/or nut rollers.

The late Ron Lashley and I discussed this at length once and Ron said that the string must never touch the bottom of the groove at the nut roller; rather only at one point on each wall of the "vee" in the grove for the best tone and sustain. I believe this with everything in me.

Also, it is common knowledge that an abrasion, groove or abnormality on the changer finger can drastically exacerbate your problem.

Check it out as Jon said.

God bless you in your quest,

carl

It's hard to troubleshoot at a distance, but offhand, I'd say you're using too much bar pressure. The closer to the center of the string the bar is, the less pressure that is required. Higher pressures detune the string, as well as move the string closer to the pickup.

Hey Jon-
Believe it or not, there is another MCI in Brooklyn. We've never met. Are you the guy with the Carter Starter on Dean (?) street? While I can't throw a rock and hit Hanks (always will be the Doray Tavern..."Where Good Friends Meet" for me...)from my home, someone with a better arm probably could.
Anyhow, I don't have grooves in my changer fingers. We should definately meet. I have a gig on Sunday afternoon (mostly six string, but I'm bringing the steel for the first time.) What time are you at Hank's? Do you play on Sunday (Bar-b-que style?) Throw me an e-mail!

If it's any help, here is the original thread with a breakdown of the pick-ups: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum3/HTML/013692.html

Is the problem the same at the 12th AND 13th fret?

Muting behind the bar, particularly at the 5th, 7th, and 12th frets is critical. Part of the problem may be there - especially if it's mostly a problem at 12 and not as much at 13. Everyone has a problem getting more tone out of a shorter string. It's the physics of the string -- there's less vibrating mass and thus, less momentum. BUT -- TECHNIQUE will conquer all. Your guitar is a wonderful instrument -- should be able to sound great once your hands learn how. As others have mentioned, left hand technique is critical -- that balance of multiple muting techniques and using enough bar pressure (but not too much) will go a long way toward improving your tone up there in 'Hughey land'.

I suggest practicing scales -- across all strings -- starting at the 12th fret and going up to the 20th or further if you're brave. Play them VERY SLOWLY, paying close attention to how each note sounds -- making it sound as full and beautiful as you can. It will get better. Concentrate on making each note count and don't get hung up on speed. Do you have a teacher? You may want to look for one to help get you off on the right foot. Technique for pedal steel is VERY COMPLEX and requires a lot of attention when first starting out. Best of luck to you. You're obviously listening and asking the right questions.

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<small>Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 21 February 2003 at 07:38 AM.]</p></FONT>

Please explain the differences that would be encountered with a keyless guitar. Thanks!

New strings might help. Old strings cause all sorts of hinkyness. After that I'll bet the problem is with your right hand. You have a real nice guitar.
Congrats on the gig !

Bob

And it just so happens that I'm about to come upon some new strings, huh? Right hand, left hand, there are problems all over the place. I guess that's why you're supposed to practice alot.

Hah. I just heard from Nick (with the MCI with finger grooves) who confirms that he is not you. Brooklyn's a good sized little town, eh?
I play a Carter pro model, not a Carter Starter. On Atlantic. If you can scare up that fellow with the good arm, by all means have him throw that rock at Hank's. Feel free to contact me about having a look at your axe.

My experience,,,no matter what guitar I am playing,,,seems to indicate that above the
12th. fret things get a lot more sensitive.
You have to pick tighter and pull back on the
volume pedal as req'd. It is strictly a "feel" sort of thing.
The focus is to hear in your mind what you want to sound like.
Start by checking your volume. You may be too loud?

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<A HREF="http://www.clictab.com/royt/tabmenu.htm ... abmenu.htm
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Thanks for all of your input. It's a nice welcoming to the forum. You all have a great weekend!<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Lawrence Lupkin on 21 February 2003 at 01:51 PM.]</p></FONT>

Roy speaks the truth.
The string(s) will vibrate less as you move the bar closer to the bridge...therefore you must set them babies in motion MoreSo....So pick it hard and let it fly.
Ricky