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Topic: whats confusing me about audio interfaces is no eq |
Keenan Friday
From:
Magnolia, Arkansas, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2014 6:05 pm |
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Basically just starting to dive into home recording through an audio interface(where everything Im hearing is from my headphones and my amp is sitting unused in the corner.) I am confused about how one adjusts the tone of the steel if there is no equalization on audio interfaces. Take the M Audio Fast Track for example.. Is this accomplished through software programs (like protools ect) instead?
Another thing is do I need to purchase a software program like protools to get the required delay/reverb compression effects or will the free version have all that I need(my free version is studio one, just used protools as an example).
Im just starting out anybody got any pointers on what all exactly I might need? thanks
keenan
_________________
Keenan Friday
Mullen Pre Royal D-10, Walker Stereo Steel, Hilton pedal, George L cables, Livesteel Strings, (White) Fred Kelly thumbpick, Dunlop .025 fingerpicks |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2014 6:56 pm
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Keenan,
If I we're you I'd stick with Studio One. You probably have the "Artist" version. You might want to upgrade to the pro version later once you get the feel of it. The pro version will give you more features, such as mastering. Anyway, the software is where you get the reverb, EQ, etc.... I've used ProTools and some of the others and Studio One is my favorite. It's one of the most powerful daws and yet it's not complicated to use. There's a lot of good tutorial videos on Presonus.com and YouTube. I know it seems difficult at this point, but it's really pretty simple once you understand it. Good luck and have fun!
RC |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 21 Jul 2014 7:58 pm
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The interface, like a Fastrack, is just that, an interface to get sound from some external source, a mic, a preamp, etc. into a DAW program such as Pro Tools. If you want something that does double duty as a headphone-only practice rig, a better choice would be something like a Line 6 Pod HD, which has all the amp models, effects, etc. out the wazoo, but can also double as a single stereo interface to a DAW via USB with an ASIO driver.
I live in an apartment right now, so that is pretty much all I use for practice. The Pod (as with others I'm sure) acts as another sound card when it's connected to the computer, so I can play along with CDs, MP3s, youtube, whatever sounds the computer can produce, and it all comes out the headphones plugged into the Pod. It doesn't sound as good as my tube amp, but does a very respectable job for what it is.
If you try to play and listen back to a signal fed through a Fastrack or something into a DAW (Pro Tools, Studio One, whatever) in order to use the effects, plug-ins, etc. for practice, you will end up with way too much latency (signal delay) to be useful. |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 21 Jul 2014 9:21 pm
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I agree with Rick Campbell. Studio One is a great DAW to use.
If you can upgrade to the Professional version I think you'll really like it.
You should be able to use the included plugins with the DAW to accomplish any fx or eq.
If you don't like what's included, there are 3rd party plugins available from companies like Waves, Overloud, etc.
With Studio One Professional there is also an amp modeling software called Ampire.
I'm not sure if that comes with the Artist version though.
The Artist version won't recognize vst plugins but the Professional version will.
Studio One is very intuitive, but if you need help, their forum is great for getting help.
There are also plenty of helpful videos on Youtube.
I use a Presonus Audiobox 44vsl with Studio One Professional on my laptop and I really like it.
Rick |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 22 Jul 2014 2:25 am
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I use Sonar X3 (Producer version). I've tried others and even have a copy of ProTools MP9, but keep going back to Sonar.
But, as noted the recording interface units are just that, a way to get the sound into the PC recording program.
You don't really want EQ or effects when recording. Later if you decide you don't like the effect, for whatever reason, you can't take it out. If you record "dry" (no effects) then you can add whatever you want in the recording program.
My main recording interface unit is a Roland Octa-Capture and my backup is an MAudio Fastrack Ultra 8R. |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 22 Jul 2014 3:33 am
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Keenan, simply put, an audio interface is not a PREAMP. As stated above, the interface is simply a path for your instrument signal to get into the DAW. In the case of digital DAW's, it is how your guitar signal gets converted from analog to digital so the DAW can recognize and accept it. True, some interfaces have more front end frills than others, which means they have some sort of analog control built in ahead of the digital conversion.
Should you desire EQ ahead of the DAW ( not recommended ) as part of your recorded signal, acquire a stand-alone processor or full service preamp, plug your instrument into THAT , then feed that to the interface to the DAW. Guitar > preamp >interface> DAW.
But as Jack has stated, it is common to let the DAW process the recorded signal for tone, effects, etc... reason being, as stated, once you record with effects it cannot be changed. You can add to it but you can't change the raw recorded track which may have effects or EQ on it from inception.
Regardless of which DAW you decide to use, the process is exactly the same. It has nothing to do with which DAW is best, we can argue that all day long until the end of time. Many folks here argue the merits of a DAW based on perception of ease of use or perhaps "free"...Put a certain DAW in the hands of 100 people, 40 will hate it, 40 will love it,10 will be in the middle and 10 will never be able to even figure out how to turn it on...but all 100 will have a firm opinion of which one "YOU" should use. Is the glass half empty or half full ?
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 31 Aug 2014 1:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 22 Jul 2014 8:31 am
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Using the right preamp/EQ on the way in will be way better than any plugin...I use the Brad Sarno V8 into the interface with awesome results...
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 22 Jul 2014 8:47 am
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I'm with John Macy. Preamp. Especially as you are delving into new stuff, I'd recommend something that let's you feel as if you are still dialing an amp---in other words, a preamp, plugged into your interface.
PODxt is one good way to go--has nice reverb & delays too. with or without the amp sims. I've had good results. In my opinion, you can work on 'optimal' later. For now, the familiarity of working with amp-like tone shaping knobs IS optimal. |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 22 Jul 2014 12:37 pm
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| John Macy wrote: |
| I use the Brad Sarno V8 into the interface with awesome results... |
I have no doubt in my mind that the Sarno pre-amp is a wonderful device. But it will set him back about $700 and he still won't be able to use it as an interface to record with.
I also agree that in the end, it really won't matter what DAW someone uses. It all depends on how someone likes to work. But if he already has a version of Studio One...
To get started, get the interface that you can afford. Don't record with any effects or eq.
Get the very best tone that you possibly can before you ever hit the record button.
Apply eq and fx at mix down time.
When your budget allows for it, get yourself the most killer mics and preamp that you can.
In the mean time, don't under estimate the value of a good SM57 or SM58.
DON'T rule out using plugins for FX and EQ.
There are some that are very good and the ones that come with Studio One are plenty good enough to get somebody started.
Have fun being creative, and don't get too bogged down with all the gear discussion BS that's out there on the internet. Use what you like.
Rick |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Jul 2014 4:39 am
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I would not argue using the preamp EQ ahead of the DAW but I would argue that you need a quality preamp with pretty much no noise ! The Sarno unit is excellent...but it may also be price prohibitive..
purpose...for us low end people ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 23 Jul 2014 5:54 am
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When I record my steel, I have several ways that I do it. All depends on "how the weather is today".
1. Direct from Steel through a D.I. box.
2. Through a POD X3 with a preamp model just for recording to a D.I. box.
3. Miked with an SM57 either from my MB200/EPS-15C speaker or my Nashville 112.
4. Direct from the XLR line out of the NV112 to the "board" (recording interface unit) or from the Preamp Out through a D.I. box to the "board". |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 24 Jul 2014 7:26 am
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| Quote: |
| Using the right preamp/EQ on the way in will be way better than any plugin... |
Where's the LIKE button??
_________________
Lost Pines Studio
"I'm nuts about bolts" |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 24 Jul 2014 11:20 pm
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| John Macy wrote: |
| Using the right preamp/EQ on the way in will be way better than any plugin...I use the Brad Sarno V8 into the interface with awesome results... |
I do the same thing. I personally try to digitally process my signal as little as possible.
Steel > V8 > interface > pro tools = done
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Bob |
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James Quillian
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 3 Aug 2014 3:37 pm
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I am probably one of the less technically sophisticated home studio folks on the board but I use it constantly, have made every mistake possibly, but have figured out some stuff that works well.
If there is any way you can, use a desktop with an interface in an expansion slot. All USB interfaces have serious limitations.
Golden Age makes the best inexpensive pre-amp on the market.
Don't try to solve latency issues within your recoding program. Run everything through a cheap mixer instead and that works. Nothing else will.
Get a cheap ART direct box to run the steel through. A good recording engineer can get a better steel sound by micing a perfect amp, but not always. A good direct box sounds better for a guy at home 99% of the time.
Its o.k. to go cheap, but make sure it will work like you expect it to.
It is easy to go broke buying cheap stuff that ends up being replaced anyway.
There is no commercial program an the market that records better than Audacity and it is free. I use Mixcraft 4 which is cheap. I didn't learn about Audacity until I was comfortable with Mixcraft.
_________________
Curbside Jimmy's New Act
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzieFLE5no |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 10 Aug 2014 1:35 am
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I have had a change of heart..I recently acquired a DBX376, single channel strip with full EQ , compression and a De-Esser...these sell in the +$500 range new , I was able to acquire one on the used market for a much lower price. I did stick in a new JJ 12AU7...
simply said
I love it ! EQ ahead of the DAW, YES ! I found my way back to what I was doing 20 years ago !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 31 Aug 2014 1:51 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 31 Aug 2014 1:44 am
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This past week I was in Nville and was able to visit Randy Kohrs at his studio over in the Music Row area, Slack Key studio's..I asked Randy this exact same question... print to the track ?
His response, absolutely ! Get the best sound you can early, up front, it saves gobs of time on the back end...
If you think about it, while tracking we should use every tool available to get the best sound to the track...isn't that why we select different mics or different Instruments ? To get a better sound to the track ?
This is NOT to say that recording clean and dry is wrong, it's not...printing to the track is an option we should explore.
There is never a wrong way to get a quality track but you may need some additional gear to be able to explore the options.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 12:03 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
This past week I was in Nville and was able to visit Randy Kohrs at his studio over in the Music Row area, Slack Key studio's..I asked Randy this exact same question... print to the track ?
His response, absolutely ! Get the best sound you can early, up front, it saves gobs of time on the back end...
If you think about it, while tracking we should use every tool available to get the best sound to the track...isn't that why we select different mics or different Instruments ? To get a better sound to the track ?
This is NOT to say that recording clean and dry is wrong, it's not...printing to the track is an option we should explore.
There is never a wrong way to get a quality track but you may need some additional gear to be able to explore the options. |
I definitely agree you should get the best tone you possibly can from your amp,mic choice and mic placement before recording.
But the best reason to avoid using the eq on the mixer or a plugin, or any fx while recording for that matter, is because you can't tell how an instrument will fit into the mix usually until it's mix down time.
Especially with compression. If in doubt, leave it out.
It can always be added later (by someone who knows what they're doing). |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Sep 2014 1:44 am
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| Rick Schacter wrote: |
But the best reason to avoid using the eq on the mixer or a plugin, or any fx while recording for that matter, is because you can't tell how an instrument will fit into the mix usually until it's mix down time.
Especially with compression. If in doubt, leave it out.
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Well that's one way to look at it,I would not argue...But there is other conventional wisdom, especially lately...If the soul purpose of a recording is to capture an Instrument in it's most natural form such as a decades old Martin or Buddy's Blade , I ain't gonna mess with it just to see how it fits in a mix. The mix is ABOUT those instruments or a vocalist.
If we are recording a Steel, mic'd, and capture the tone of the Steel thru our favorite amp,( printing with EQ) are we changing it in the mix ? Why would we ? I think probably not, now we may roll off the low end to clear up some mud but I'm thinking not much more than that.
An interesting read this weekend ( Bobby Owsinski) stated, if you are altering your EQ's more than a couple of DB in the final mix, you should probably go back and re-record that track as it is too far off from what you were wanting for the end product. Less is more...
Regarding compressors, historically the compressor is not the problem, it's the person using it ! These neat little devises used with an understanding of what each element offers are pure magic !
But getting back to the topic, getting to the end result is the goal. The process can be totally different..but the goal should be the same. We should never just submit to " this is how its done so I better do it this way"...It's not about the process, it's about the end result.
it's all good ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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