The Steel Guitar Forum

I am wondering if a U-12 steel can be used for an extended E9 tuning and setup ??..Are the extra pedals and knee levers usable on an Extended E9 setup ?? I'm working really hard to play 10 string, but I'm interested in the added stings on the extended E9 setup..Thanks in advance for all who respond

James,
A 12-string pedal steel can be used for either a universal or extended E9 and, incidentally, they aren't THAT different -- only the insertion of the D string in the 9th position and the absence of the low B string. Some C6 players have dropped the bottom string and added a D -- which would be the equivalent of C# on E9 -- between C and E to tighten up the bottom end of the tuning. The only physical difference in the guitars is that Ext E9 doesn't really require more than 3 pedals, but more can certainly be added. Winnie Winston's tuning is an excellent example, as is Bobby Lee's tuning.

The basic decision point for most players is how accustomed they are to the D string on E9. There are two common ways to get this note on a universal (lower 8 E to D; raise 9 B to D), but some rely so heavily on having the string there they don't feel comfortable losing it.

There are plenty of usable changes to augment the 9th tuning positions, some borrowed from E9 and some from C6, that can be used.

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<small>Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

I lower the 8th string to D AND raise the 9th string to a D on separate knee levers on different knees. I cannot tell you HOW much I like this. To me it simply is the way music is. IE, sometimes music goes UP to the 7th; and yet other times it goes DOWN to the 7th.

I just love having it both ways. Plus, I have NO problem at all with having to engage a knee lever to get either of the D notes. As I stated in another post, the very idea of a PSG, IMO, is to be able to "get" various notes when called for. How many times on a song does one engage A and/or the B pedal as just one of many examples?

IF you are concerned with extended E9th, none of the above really matters. While it appears that all one is doing is adding a D note between the B and the E notes (extended E9th), to me it messes up "C6" voicings totally. So it is not for me. But for others it is the only way to go.

Try it, ya might like it.

And May Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

The traditional Universal is designed so that someone familiar with the C6 neck can do all and everything on it. To alter it is to possibly reduce its universality---with the exception of the "Bell" modification which moves the 6th pedal to a knee lever, thus making it effective for all playing--E9 or B6, further reducing (or expanding) the tuning into one integrated concept. As such, the standard Uni tuning is itself an extended tuning.
If standard C6 (B6) playing is not of interest, then there is good reason to consider the more standard Ext. E9 tunings, restoring the D string. As Larry says, there's not all that much difference. It's just that the traditional U-12 tuning is specifically faithful to the C6 (B6) tuning and coped.

To go from E9 to Extended E9, you must: <ol>[*]Add two low strings: G# and E.
[*]Apply the E9 changes to the extra strings where appropriate.[/list]To go from E9 to E9/B6 Universal, you must:<ol>[*]Remove the D string, moving the B up to the 9th string position.[*]Add three low strings: G#, E and B.[*]Apply the E9 changes to the extra strings as appropriate.[*]Add a change to supply the missing D note from the E9th tuning.[*]Add the standard C6 (now B6) pedals.[/list]
The Extended E9 is a much simpler tuning than the E9/B6 Universal.

You can add the C6 changes to Extended E9, but you will have that pesky D string in the way if you try to play standard C6 stuff, and you won't have the lowest string of the C6.

If you add C6 pedals to an Extended E9, you would probably want to lower the D to C# when you switch modes by lowering your E strings. This would give you the equivalent of the "middle D" on C6, which has been the subject of considerable debate recently. I have a middle D on my C6 (and a middle E on my D6) and I like it a lot, but many C6 players feel that it would get in their way.

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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 02 February 2003 at 10:59 AM.]</p></FONT>

You know what? Regardless of whether you play a D-10 or an S-12 or 14 with or without the D string, (within the range of the tuning) the same notes, the same melodies, most of the same harmonies are there. It's more in how you use it.

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<small>Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 02 February 2003 at 07:46 PM.]</p></FONT>

At this point and time, I am not really sure, but I am kinda looking to extend the E9 tuning so that there are more variables with the extra strings...Sort of a more powerful E9 tuning....The C6/B6 setup would be nice at a later date for jazz or swing...Right now I'm barely getting by (but still pluggin along) on the E9 neck....I'm just pondering single/double neck features and tunings to see which way I would go if I were to buy a new steel..
I have an S-10, and have a D-10 coming...Maybe a nice U-12 with an extended E9 tuning is in order to round out the herd !!...Thanks again to all...Sincerely, Jim

Hey Jim,
I played the U-12 for about 20 years or so and have gone to an extended E9 type tuning. I'm using some of the B6 changes along with it. The only difference is that I tune my 2nd and 9th strings to C#. With a regular extended E9 I'd consider lowering my D string to C# along with the E's (4 & to do some of the C6th type things. If you'd like I can send you my set up.....Have a great day...JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.