The Steel Guitar Forum

A couple of years ago I was asked to do some fill in work with a local group. When I arrived at the band practice, the band leader said I could play his steel, which was already set up. Since practice was in this guys basement, I gave it a try, not having to haul my equipment down the stairs.. The steel was a Pro. model, most would recognize the brand,

What a nightmare !would not stay in tune, cheesy knee levers, mushy pedals, all out of adjustment.

I fiddled with the steel for three Hrs..
After practice he asked me if I could take the steel home & re -string it & adjust it all up for him.

He was trying to learn a little on steel & didn't know how to set one up. The steel was left to him through an estate.

I spent two days on this bad boy steel & finally had it adjusted the best I could & it still was a piece of junk!

I can work on all pulls as well as PPs. The steel was all pull. The steel itself cosmetically great & all original, but it must have been a ,hot dog, out of the factory.

Anyway, I returned it to him at next practice & told him I did the best I could.

I told him I would rather play my own steel at practice .
He said he had decided to sell the steel, after all.




That was a couple of years ago & I wonder who bought this steel

I have played some mutts in my day, but the worst was the Carter Starter,, i have played 2 and tried to get both of them to play better, but it was impossible.. In my opinion they were just unplayable.
I wonder if those guitars cost Carter some sales when they were in business?...
If I bought one, and it had the carter nameplate on it, I might look for a different brand when it was time to move up... Played a Red baron that was as bad as a Starter as well,, As far as pro models, I have owned and Played some pro model Buds that refused to stay in tune.. had to be tuned up every song, or more... I have also had 2 steels that are modern, well regarded steels, that a LOT of players use... I couldn't get them out the door fast enough..
As Jim Palenscar once said to me... "Some pieces of wood just don't belong in a steel guitar"... True... bob

My very first pedal steel, a Framus (mid-70s). Went out of tune all the time. Mushy pedals. Hard to push knee levers.

I can't imagine anything worse than the Marketrite Mark 1. Incredibly stiff pedals, high string tension to the degree that you could slice cheese with the unwound strings and impossible to keep in tune. Still, it was the best $150. that I ever spent.

A ******. A friend let us borrow the guitar as my wife wanted to learn steel. The guitar was in excellent shape but was an early model that did not have a roller nut. Strings just wouldn't return right after raising or lowering them because of what I assumed was the non-roller nut. I couldn't find any other reason.

I could tell ya, but I'd rather not because there are lots of people reading this thread who own one and I don't see any point in dissing their axes and making them feel bad about what they have. YMMV.

SHO - BUD Pro I. No way to get that thing in tune.

I agree with Jim - if I listed a couple - the haters would come out of the wood work ----- pun intended.

I know of one particular steel that has been bought and sold about 12 times - it is a company that is no longer building steels

nuff said

Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com

If I would have stayed with my CS I would have quit by now. My first guitar after the Carter was a MSA "The Universal", the difference for me was night and day. I think the most difficult thing for me was the wobbling and not staying in tune. I never knew if it was me or the guitar. After I bought a better guitar I found out it was me!

First, I have to say that the worst pedal steel I have ever played was the one I built myself in 1971. I didn't have a machine shop so the entire thing was built out of wood and Meccano parts. The pedals were wood, the pedal rod was dowling, the cabinet was wood, the internal rods were also dowling. What with the wet English weather and temperature variations it never stayed in tune.

Bob Carlucci wrote:I have played some mutts in my day, but the worst was the Carter Starter,.. In my opinion they were just unplayable.
I wonder if those guitars cost Carter some sales when they were in business?...

Absolutely right. The first pedal steel I ever bought was a Carter Farter. What with my love of the Carter Family's music, and their cousin, Jimmy Carter, I was expecting better. It was awful. I shortly afterwards bought a Sho Bud and the difference was like night and day, black and white and color. The Carter went back into its case where it has stayed. Every so often I say to myself, "It cannot be as bad as I remember it," so I pull it out, play it for a few minutes, and back in its case it goes. I've even changed the pedals and the pickups for Emmons, but it's still useless.
They tell me that regular Carters are good machines, but with my experience I don't want anything to do with them. Bob is right. They DID do harm to the reputation of the company.

Another vote for the incomparable Market-rite Mark 1... a 1970s build-it-yourself kit for $150! Buyers would have to assemble and paint the guitars (often very poorly). If you ever see one... run the other way!

A Sho-Bud Maverick, one of the old plastic covered jobbies... Had a student bring one in to take lessons on. I could not get it to stay in tune. The mechanical action of the pedals and single knee lever were just awful...

WORLDS WORST PEDAL STEEL: The Japanese Tiesco, using bicycle clutch & brake cables to connect pedals with changers.

ALMOST AS BAD: The first Rickenbacker pedal steel.

HONORABLE MENTION: A Fender lap steel with pedals of unknown origin added. Considering it's limitations, it played fairly well, but had to be more or less rebuilt after every job.

My first pedal steel was a Gibson Electraharp, S-8 with 4 pedals on the left. It was pretty bad... I sold it to Rodney Dillard for $75, but Pete Grant got it going and used it on Wheatstraw Suite.

Other than that, the Multi-Cord is the worst I've ever played, though I've looked at, but never played, guitars that must be similar to the Market-Rite.

Larry Jamieson wrote:A Sho-Bud Maverick, one of the old plastic covered jobbies... Had a student bring one in to take lessons on. I could not get it to stay in tune. The mechanical action of the pedals and single knee lever were just awful...

The lesson here, which should be learned by all manufacturers, is that the pedal steel guitar is a complex instrument, and building a simplified one which scrimpts on details, does no good for them whatsoever. I honestly believe that Carter were aware of that when they built the Starter, but the shortcomings eventually reversed back on them.

Just as a sidebar, and not discounting anyone's personal experience with a particular guitar, but the first generation "gumby" Maverick's changer and pulling system is very similar in operation to its fancier relative, the Permanent. I have two; they can be made to play very nicely, given their limitations. And they can be upgraded.

First time I saw a one being played was in 1969 on Connie Smith's part of a package show in Hartford CT, with Bobbe Seymour on the Mav.

Alan Brookes wrote:[
The lesson here, which should be learned by all manufacturers, is that the pedal steel guitar is a complex instrument, and building a simplified one which scrimpts on details, does no good for them whatsoever. I honestly believe that Carter were aware of that when they built the Starter, but the shortcomings eventually reversed back on them.

Alan, I respectfully have a differing opinion. It does the instrument no good to be priced to the point that the window of entry is very small. Scrimping on details is what regrettably goes on when a guitar has to meet a certain price point to get to the mass market that was the target of the Starter and also the Magnum.

I believe John Fabian thought the Carter Starter would only "prime the pump," as it were, for future serious steel devotees; probably have a shelf life of a couple years. By then, those hooked on the steel concept will sell the starter and upgrade to pro level, and those who didn't find themselves in the steel will sell to other newbies and move on to other things.

Just MHO, YMMV.

Baldwin Sho Bud with the lever to shift the pedals from one neck to the other. Couldn't keep it in tune for love nor money and the shift mechanism was constantly in need of adjustment.

Herb, I agree that student models are in a separate class, and shouldn't be judged by the same standards as pro models. Much like entry-level guitars, they serve a purpose... to give beginners low cost way to try an instrument. Fender has been doing that for years with their entry-level Squier Strat, made in China. It would not be fair to compare one of those to a USA made Strat. But having said that, the Market-rite really sucked!

A "beginner" steel needs to be able to play and stay in tune. If not many new students are going to get discouraged and abandon learning a steel.

Same way with a 6 string guitar. Buy a $59 guitar to learn on and the student will get discouraged and quit. The $59 guitars are not going to stay in tune, fret true and usually the strings are high from the neck.

The worst for me, was Fessenden S10. A friend bought my Sho~Bud Professional that was set up Day style. He wanted me to change his Fessy over to Day. When he brought it to me, the end plates were loose and practically ready to fall off the guitar. There were several other issues. It took me most of a day, but I got it back in shape. This is not a reflection on Fessenden guitars. This one was clearly abused. Fessenden's are great guitars.

I have to agree with Herb about its purpose...But, I have to say that the CS...looked like a steel guitar...thats about where the edge of the cliff was...it would make a good anchor......maybe...

Sho-Bud Pro I. Mid to late '70s. Purchased new, 3 floor pedals and 2 right knee levers. Sounded great but would not stay in tune. Pretty to look at, but that's it. Soured me on 'Buds permanently (no pun intended).

Way back I had a Maverick which was reasonable but I traded it on a 'Bud (I think it was a Pro 1 - have tried to forget )which was worse than terrible . After 2 weeks I got my Maverick back! Then had an early JEM S10 which had 'constant variable tuning'.
Don't miss those days at all.

I just pulled the Starter outta the closet. It plays and sounds just fine. At this point the only thing I'd do differently with it is take 1/8" or 1/4" off the pedal rods to raise the pedals a bit.

It has about half the cabinet drop of my U12 MSA for string 4, A&B pedals down.

Once you get the E lower lever straightened out, I don't think it's a bad little guitar at all. Yeah, throw is a bit much on the levers and they feel cheezy but that lasts about four minutes and I stop noticing. The reverser for that E lever *is* a massive pain to work on.

Herb, I think you nailed it - the Starter I bought came with some marketing literature for a Magnum.

I haven't sat down to too many steels. but the only one I didn't like just needed work.