Weight vs Power

Steven Finley · From: California, USA

During my recent road trip with Cowboy Royalty, (Tom Bovine), I had a chance to explore attributes of amplifiers considering weight vs power. We did a whirlwind tour of 18 one-nighters in 3 weeks with venues of varying size, both indoor and outdoor.
I was running 2 cubes which worked ok for the smaller venues, but when we hit a large outdoor venue, I admit, I really missed my Nashville 400. I ended up going through the board which handled the job very well. However, I guess I am a bit old school and still like to hear that awesome power coming out of an amp right next to me, but 35 lbs vs 70 lbs is persuasive.

How much of your sound do you think you are compromising by going with a lighter amp?

On another note: Tom's barbecue on the 4th was awesome. Many gigs I have played in the past did not feed the band or expected the band to buy their plate of barbecue. Tom feed his band for the entire 3 week tour--I call that cowboy royalty.

Malcolm McMaster · From: Beith Ayrshire Scotland

Steven, I use MB 200 with Sica speaker, this gives out 200 watts and weighs 21lbs.I can see no loss of tone since I changed from my Nahville 400. In large venues where you are mic'd or DI'd , I place my amp at my side, speaker pointed at me ,gives me all the volume I would ever need, and as often said on here your tone is in the hands of the sound man.on medium/ smaller venues where only vocals are thru pa ,there is more than enough volume / tone from this light weight set up, and my back just loves it.If unable to take complete rig, all I have to do is take amp head (2lbs) in suitcase and just use any speaker cab I can find at gig, any spare wedge monitor is good, or go straight from amp to desk, thus keeping some control of my tone..Don't think there is any compromise in using lighter set up.I tried the Telonics combo at Dallas and got to say it was best amp I have heard, and weighs in around 33lbs, only thing stopping me getting one is price, way out of my price range.
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MSA Millenium SD10, GK MB200, Sica 12inch cab, Joyo American Sound Pedal/ Jay Ganz Straight Ahead amp, Telonics 15inch in Peavey cab, Digitech RP150, Peterson tuner.Hilton volume pedal.Scott Dixon seat and guitar flight case.

James Yoder · From: Texas, USA

Steven I use a MB200, RP155, Jensen 12" SP speaker. Was using a Nashville 1000, like what I'm using now much better. 21 lbs.. Mullen G2. Best thing I ever done.

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

Since you asked, I have never understood the need for such extremely powerful amps and the resultant extreme stage volume. Maybe it is an old school thing where you are battling to hear yourself over a super loud guitarist or drummer, but I find a nicely balanced stage so much more enjoyable. With that in mind, I have never needed anything more powerful that a Twin Reverb. The 100 watt Mustang III I am currently using has been more than enough for everything from small bars to big outdoor stages. I keep it pretty close by me, so I can hear it as much as I want, and you can always add some to your monitor for large stages.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Tim, I agree with you as long as there's a full sound system. If you have to fill the room from your amp, and it's a loud band, a Twin or Session 500 will be hard pressed to keep up and stay clean.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Tim Whitlock · From: Colorado, USA

I hear you Lane, but I find that even with a modest PA you can still run a line out to the board, or mike your amp and let the PA cover the house. A little tricky to do if you don't have a sound man and separate mixes but it can be done. It took me a while to come around to the idea of letting the PA do the work after many years of trying to cover the room with the amp. The flexibility with modern amps also allows you to get a good tone and still control your volume.

I think it mostly has to do with having every member of the band on the same page with this approach. After a long discussion, my band agreed to make our stage mix our number one priority, under the premise that if we can hear ourselves clearly we would play better and enjoy playing more. It also requires a drummer that understands how to play dynamically within the musical context. It is so much more enjoyable to hear more music and less sheer volume.

Sorry - did not mean to hijack this thread, but I thought this point was relevant to the OP's question.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Yes, but I've played jam sessions and parties and the like with only 6 channels. If I didn't like the folks, I wouldn't even be there. Running into the system isnt't even an option
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Steven putting a Telonics Neo 15 in your NV400 would whack a fair amount of the weight off -- and it would improve the sound of the amp in to the bargain Very Happy

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14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases.

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

I haven't used anything more than a 20 watt tube amp for about 98 of my last 100 gigs. I built myself a custom 2 channel 20 watter and put a JBL K130 in it and thats all I will likely need. I've used it at big outdoor shows with no mic, small venues etc and it always seems to sit in the sweet spot.

My personal 85W Milkman (which actually puts out 100-110W with ease) has been modified to 50W and its still way loud. I bring that amp out once or twice a year and its a shame, because it was the first Milkman amp that I ever built and it too has a JBL installed.

I took a 200W Hybrid to the last Steel Guitar Jam here in the bay area and was asked to turn down. Now that model is 300W and I can't imagine ever turning it up past 2 on the dial. I am looking forward to releasing that amp but its way too loud for me to use personally! (although I probably will anyway)

Maybe its a relic of the old days when there was no live sound reinforcement - or maybe people are hard of hearing - but in this day and age, low power is definitely the way to go and the weight problem sorts itself out. Any decent venue can get a big PA system for under $5000 and most of them seem to have one now. The trend is quiet - if you are too loud, you'll lose the gig. Plain and simple. Thats the bottom line at nearly every venue I have ever played at ranging from giant stages with 20,000 people in the audience down to a coffee house with 5 people looking at their iPhones. Quiet = $ Very Happy

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Milkmansound.com

Steven Finley · From: California, USA

Tim,your hybrid looks like it just might be the perfect ticket,power size and weight!!

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

Using a heavier , more powerful, amp does not mean that you are always playing so loud that you make people deaf !!...... I play thru powerful tube amps because they have more iron in them , and the higher wattage allows me to have more tone and having a clean tone with high headroom at a lower volume ....If I have to push the amp as the room or the band dictates , I also have the power on tap to do so .....Also , the word "Loud" is relative ..... Loud to some, may be average to others

.....I say this because I was puzzled to hear Tim M say that he could play an outdoor gig with a 20 watt amp , and it's not mic'd ...????????...... I know it's 20 tube watts , and the JBL is an efficient speaker , but I woldn't be able to say the same thing wth any of the bands or outdoor gigs that I've ever done ....There would have to be a good sound system and that amp would be mic'd to say the least ......Jim

James Yoder · From: Texas, USA

Head room to me always has been the most important thing for clean & good sound. I've been to 2 Peavey sound schools & they always talked about headroom.

Kevin Raymer · From: Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA

Not as much experience on Pedal Steel as I do with guitar, but decent sound techs are hard to come by up in my neck of th woods.

Placing my sound in their hands is precarious.

I'm yet to be sorry that I carried my 50W boogie, or my NV400 up on stage and had control of my sound in hand.

Just like the right to bear arms is one deterent to a dictatorial regiem taking over our government, sufficient amplifier power is protection from incompetent sound techs.

LOL

Whoa!

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Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

this is true - however the beam coming out of your amp is very different than the wide dispersion that PA speakers are designed for. So there may be one or two people in your laser beam giving you the thumbs up, but the folks standing on either side will not be able to hear you.

There's no shortage of lame sound engineers everywhere - however, without one you really have no idea whats happening out front.
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Milkmansound.com

Ray Uhl · From: Riverside, Missouri, USA

I have a MB500, currently using a BW1501-4 DT from my Vegas. Best sound to date. 500W@4OHMS, 350@8. Dual speaker outputs, separate in/out on rear, I use an Alesis Miniverb 4 for effects.Google and get the exact amp specs online. I am considering the MB500 Fusion. It's a Hybrid with a 12AXT7 output tube. I haven't tried one, but in theory sounds interesting.

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