Setting up pulls on MSA Classic

Chris Rohde · Post by **Chris Rohde** » 8 Jan 2003 5:14 am

I've got an MSA Classic and I'm having trouble getting pedal 8 to drop string 10 down to an A. I've tried using heavier gauge string - no luck. If I tune the nut on the endplate to get the A, the string comes back flat (or maybe sharp, I forget). Could someone explain how to properly set up the changes on this guitar?

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 8 Jan 2003 6:30 am

Chris, sounds like a travel problem to me. On the part that the pedal rod connects to there is an allen screw. Turn that screw about two turns counter-clockwise, that will give the pedal a little more travel and the string should lower enough.

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Johnny Cox
MSA Customer Service http://www.msapedalsteels.com http://www.thetimejumpers.com

[This message was edited by Johnny Cox on 08 January 2003 at 06:36 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 8 Jan 2003 6:33 am

Is there any slack?
If not, you may not have enough pedal throw. Try increasing the amount of travel and retuning the nylon nut.

Also, lower the note, release the pedal, and look at the changer. Did the lower finger come all the way back? If not, you may need to tighten the return spring. It's been decades since I worked on an MSA, but those are two things that come to mind. You may have to actually remove the return spring and shorten it manually to increase the force if that's the problem. As I recall, the MSAs I owned didn't have easily adjustable return springs. DON'T MESS WITH RETURN SPRINGS IF YOU'RE NOT PRETTY SURE THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

Hope this helps some.
(I just noticed Johnny was answering at the same time I was -- he's da man!)
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 08 January 2003 at 06:37 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 Jan 2003 8:52 am

First, make sure there is slack, as others mentioned. Next, push the lowering finger with a screwdriver, or just your finger, and see if the string will make the lower. If it will...it's a travel problem, and you'll have to move the pull-rod one hole away from the cross shaft. If it won't make the lower (after you'e done the above), then the lower-return spring is too tight. Take a screwdriver and insert it between the coils of the spring and twist it a little to "open up" a coil...you want to make a gap about the same as the thickness of a coil (1/16"). This will stretch the spring a little...you may have to do this in 2 or 3 different places on the spring. (Do not remove the spring to do this!)

I have that change on my Classic, so I know the guitar will do it.

p.s. As Earnest says below, I forgot to mention that if the raise finger starts to move when lowering a string (canceling some of the lower), that's a sure sign that the lower-return spring is too tight. This is a common problem on some all-pull guitars, such as the old MSA's. This problem will cause undue wear on the finger stop-bar, too...even if it doesn't prevent the lower you're trying to make.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 08 January 2003 at 04:14 PM.]

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 8 Jan 2003 1:56 pm

As Donny said, this can be caused by too much tension in the lower-return spring. In that case, you would see the raise bar moving (raising the string) when you lower it. So look carefully and see if it is trying to raise when you lower.

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 8 Jan 2003 9:25 pm

Well, I'll try too.
Certainly a little slack is prefered in just about all cases.
Let's take it in a few steps......
Is this a double raise, double lower MSA or a triple raise/lower MSA?
I suspose it really does not make a lot of difference as long as we are just dealing with the so called "old standard" set ups that were popular back then (and even for the most part, still popular today).
I am assuming you are using a common string guage for the low C which is usually between an .066 all the way to a .079,,,with a .068 or .070 being the most common of those.
Start by disconnecting all three changes associated with this pedal, or at least by backing off the tuning nuts on strings 7 and 9 enough to where they no longer activate the changer.
Now, take the lowering rod for string 10 and run it through the bottom hole of the lowering actuator of the changer finger (top hole with guitar upside down)(the hole that is most away from the axle or string, if you will). Run this rod to the second hole from the crossrod in the bellcrank. Open up your stop screw over there by where the pedal rod connects with that smaller of the allen wrenches. Let's say 3 or 4 full turns.
Now activate the 8'th pedal and see if the string is lowering enough. If not, then put the rod in the next hole away from the cross rod (the 3'rd hole) and repeat. If all else is what it should be, then you should have a lot more lower than you need. Decide which pedal action and travel you prefer and "set" the stop for that preference,,,remembering to leave just a little slack before the changer is actually activated. If this does not work, then you probably have one or more of the problems discussed above. If it does work, then you can put the other two rods back in (probably in the changer hole most away from the axle and probably in the bellcrank hole closest to the crossrod), make your fine tuning adjustments and be on your way.
Hope this helps. If not, email me and I'll try to help in other ways.
BB

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If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Chris Rohde · Post by **Chris Rohde** » 9 Jan 2003 8:55 am

Thanks for all of the advice - I took Donny's advice and disconnected the change on the 10th string and moved the changer finger by hand - I was able to get the string to drop to A no problem. After looking at it more carefully, the changer finger on the 10th string is bent slightly towards the 9th string changer finger, and the 9th string change on pedal 8 (F to E) is pushing the raise finger on string 10 when the pedal is used. I'm guessing that the best way to fix this is to take a pair of pliers and try to bend the 10th string changer finger back into its correct position. Any thoughts on this?