Would like some comments from advanced steel players....having played lead guitar since a very young age, I've recently began working on my ZB custom, eleven string steel....For my practise sessions, I use Karaoke background beds and pick the melody..I find having rhythm to play to makes it so much easier and allows me a chance to be creative as I can...it seems to be helping a lot..I also tune the satelite to the non stop country channel and pick along with the recorded sounds...any knocks on that?
Alan Hunt
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practise method
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
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Larry Bell
- Posts: 5550
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Englewood, Florida
- Contact:
Knocks?
NO WAY!
You're right on the money, in my book.
The one thing I see with students who sit for hours with their guitars to try to learn a meaningless sequence of fret, string, and pedal combinations is that the MUSICALITY is what's missing. Since you're already a musician, I suspect you already understand this. Steel players seem to become manically focused on the STEEL PART. Well, I'll tell ya, buckaroos, it ain't about the steel part at all. It's about THE SONG first, THE BAND second, and the steel part is WAAAAAAY down the list -- to ANYONE other than the steel player.
Being fretless, our instrument offers us a vast array of ways we can sound BAD, especially when playing with others. Minute corrections are always necessary to sound good with all the other notes in the mix. Playing with rhythm tracks, BandInABox, the radio, or just a rhythm guitar player teaches lessons that are not learned otherwise. To realize that the next beat you're playing will move on whether you play the right note or not is A REVELATION to some players.
As with most instruments, there is a period when you concentrate on the mechanics -- frets, strings, pedals, levers, etc. Good players work hard early on to get to the next level, when you feel confident that you can grab 5,6, and 8 when you need to or slide smoothly from G on the 3rd fret to the A+B position on 10. If you have to THINK about the technique, THERE WON'T BE ROOM FOR THE MUSIC. Playing along with the radio is more of a challenge, but you're in good company. I remember Buddy Emmons mentioning that he spends a lot of his practice time doing just that. Playing material other than country can also help, once you're comfortable with the often simpler country progressions.
<font size=1>sheesh, I didn't mean for this to turn into a lecture -- YOU'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING. Keep it up. </font>
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<small>Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro
NO WAY!
You're right on the money, in my book.
The one thing I see with students who sit for hours with their guitars to try to learn a meaningless sequence of fret, string, and pedal combinations is that the MUSICALITY is what's missing. Since you're already a musician, I suspect you already understand this. Steel players seem to become manically focused on the STEEL PART. Well, I'll tell ya, buckaroos, it ain't about the steel part at all. It's about THE SONG first, THE BAND second, and the steel part is WAAAAAAY down the list -- to ANYONE other than the steel player.
Being fretless, our instrument offers us a vast array of ways we can sound BAD, especially when playing with others. Minute corrections are always necessary to sound good with all the other notes in the mix. Playing with rhythm tracks, BandInABox, the radio, or just a rhythm guitar player teaches lessons that are not learned otherwise. To realize that the next beat you're playing will move on whether you play the right note or not is A REVELATION to some players.
As with most instruments, there is a period when you concentrate on the mechanics -- frets, strings, pedals, levers, etc. Good players work hard early on to get to the next level, when you feel confident that you can grab 5,6, and 8 when you need to or slide smoothly from G on the 3rd fret to the A+B position on 10. If you have to THINK about the technique, THERE WON'T BE ROOM FOR THE MUSIC. Playing along with the radio is more of a challenge, but you're in good company. I remember Buddy Emmons mentioning that he spends a lot of his practice time doing just that. Playing material other than country can also help, once you're comfortable with the often simpler country progressions.
<font size=1>sheesh, I didn't mean for this to turn into a lecture -- YOU'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING. Keep it up. </font>
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<small>Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro
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Rich Weiss
- Posts: 444
- Joined: 18 Jun 2001 12:01 am
- Location: Woodland Hills, CA, USA
Your methods of practice will change as you progress but I cannot suggest strongly enough how valuable it is to record your playing. It can be painful, especially at first. You hear yourself and you cringe, but over time as you listen back, you will make the necessary adjustments. Touch, tone, timing, all these things must be considered. Remember, when you sound good recorded, you sound Good!
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Tony Prior
- Posts: 14522
- Joined: 17 Oct 2001 12:01 am
- Location: Charlotte NC
- Contact:
Alan, glad to hear you are burning the candle with the 11 string..I believe completely what Larry has stated about no musicality. I have always believed , regardless of which Instrument a student is learning, that just doing mechanics, notes, frets whatever without actually playing a song is a guarantee to failure and dropping out.
Last year I returned to Steel after a 12 year self inflicted layoff. Like you I have been playing Guitar for many many years and never stopped so the music discipline was still intact.
My return to Steel made me re-examine a few things right up front. When I did play previously I wa stuck in the same old mold, A+B pedals with a few tricks using the E levers. I did not play much melody everything was adlib and probably out of tune. This time out it's melody lines first
and an ongoing education of what the guitar can actually do, meaning the tonality and phrasing available from the pulls and raises from all them knee levers. I am also spending excessive time on pitch and tuning.
I really like what Larry has stated above;
"Being fretless, our instrument offers us a vast array of ways we can sound BAD"..and how right he is...
I use a monthly practice checklist which has many items on it which I want to practice. This includes scales,phrases,licks, songs etc..The checklist prevents me from wandering off into wasted time . Do I wander off and play all sorts of other stuff? oh yes... but at least I do practice what I should be practicing at each session.
Rhythm tracks or band in a Box tracks are an excellent way to practice . Sounds like you are on the right track..
good luck
tp<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 03 January 2003 at 04:14 AM.]</p></FONT>
Last year I returned to Steel after a 12 year self inflicted layoff. Like you I have been playing Guitar for many many years and never stopped so the music discipline was still intact.
My return to Steel made me re-examine a few things right up front. When I did play previously I wa stuck in the same old mold, A+B pedals with a few tricks using the E levers. I did not play much melody everything was adlib and probably out of tune. This time out it's melody lines first
and an ongoing education of what the guitar can actually do, meaning the tonality and phrasing available from the pulls and raises from all them knee levers. I am also spending excessive time on pitch and tuning.
I really like what Larry has stated above;
"Being fretless, our instrument offers us a vast array of ways we can sound BAD"..and how right he is...
I use a monthly practice checklist which has many items on it which I want to practice. This includes scales,phrases,licks, songs etc..The checklist prevents me from wandering off into wasted time . Do I wander off and play all sorts of other stuff? oh yes... but at least I do practice what I should be practicing at each session.
Rhythm tracks or band in a Box tracks are an excellent way to practice . Sounds like you are on the right track..
good luck
tp<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 03 January 2003 at 04:14 AM.]</p></FONT>
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David Weaver
- Posts: 591
- Joined: 18 Dec 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Aurora, CO USA
The nice thing about this forum is that you can get so much information, inspiration, direction, etc and not post.
I am not an expert player so I read all posts like this and I appreciate the direction that the advice gives when these kinds of questions are answered.
They've been answered and talked about before, but there is always something that is either fresh or a reminder of something that may have been lacking in play or practice.
The first time I recorded myself it almost made me ill. Now I have either gotten used to how bad I sound or...I've improved some. Mostly the latter I suspect, because it is hard to ignore a poorly played steel guitar.
Thanks for all the comments and direction from those who keep the rest of us on target. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David Weaver on 02 January 2003 at 01:28 PM.]</p></FONT>
I am not an expert player so I read all posts like this and I appreciate the direction that the advice gives when these kinds of questions are answered.
They've been answered and talked about before, but there is always something that is either fresh or a reminder of something that may have been lacking in play or practice.
The first time I recorded myself it almost made me ill. Now I have either gotten used to how bad I sound or...I've improved some. Mostly the latter I suspect, because it is hard to ignore a poorly played steel guitar.
Thanks for all the comments and direction from those who keep the rest of us on target. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David Weaver on 02 January 2003 at 01:28 PM.]</p></FONT>
Larry Bell and all the others who responded to my practise method, thanks a bunch. I honestly beleive had it not been for joining the forum, I may hv waited a long time before opening up my steel guitar case. The advice you've all directed my way is so encouraging. I'm sure I'll return with more requests for help if you don't mind. The advice is clear and easy to digest, I like that. Most of all, I hv a passion for the steel and I can sit at it for hours on end..it to me is the most rewarding instrument I've ever tackled...(my stratocaster is a bit slighted over it all..but it will get its turn again...tnx again guys...best of the new year to u all.
Alan
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Alan
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
- Posts: 2155
- Joined: 23 Jan 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Clinton, Missouri USA
Alan: Just a thought. I also practice with old records. (I can't stand most of the new stuff). JMO: Playing along with records will really help train you to overcome any intonation problems you may or (NOT?) Have. Then when you play with live groups, you will have a lot easier time staying in tune with the live players. My opinion is that any constructive practice can't hurt.
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Joseph Barcus
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Volga West Virginia
learn as many intros you can that seems to be when youre most needed lol, then after that the lead guitar runs over you, just kidding there. tracks are good they keep you in tune. and three days at Jeffs isnt a bad ideal although it will take a year or two for all of it to soak in after you get home but it has a wonderful pay off. and finnaly but not least rebels steel guitar licks, full of the best 60s stuff that you wont hear on a radio or buy any place else. take care Joe