The Steel Guitar Forum

Some of you know that I am new to pedal steel and I would like to ask you guys who play a D-10 how they set up their C6 neck...I've heard of a lot of guys that play either C6 or E9 and fewer that play both... I'm seeing a more standard tuning and copedant for the E9 neck, but not as standard for the C6....Is there a standard tuning and copedant that is somewhat standard for the C6 neck ???..I'm not going to jump right in and try to understand both neck s at once, but sooner or later I want to learn both....Thanks to all for your help...

Jim, the C6th is probably MORE standardized than the E9th - at least for the majority of "standard" changes. Look at any of the posted copedants and you will find pedals 4 thru 8 (on a double 10) usually pretty standard, usually a 3rd string 1/2 tone lower on a knee. Top string used to be a "G" but most now have a "D" there. The problem (for me, anyway) is that there are SO MANY different chords available in a single bar position by different string combinations (even WITHOUT pedals!) that my feeble brain can't comprehend the tuning. If you play the C6th by moving the bar around to get to "standard" chord positions, i.e., "D" on 2nd fret, "E" on 4th, "F" on 5th, etc., etc... you may be able to follow the basic chords of the tune but won't get that beautiful western swing sound. (But the challenge is fun!)

I believe today knee levers to lower and raise the 3rd &4th strings a 1/2 step are becoming standard<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Steel tryin on 11 December 2002 at 06:10 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Steel tryin on 11 December 2002 at 06:12 AM.]</p></FONT>

Take a look at Buddy Emmons setup here: http://www.buddyemmons.com/info.htm
Since Buddy sets the standard for playing, his guitar setup is, or will be, the standard too.

Thank you all for your help...Since I have always been impressed with Buddy Emmons' jazz work on the C6th ( and the E9 work for that matter ) I think I will go with his setup..Hey , who am I to argue with Buddy ??..Right now finding all my positions on ANY neck is a bit bewildering, but I know in time, it will become 2nd nature to me.. I have the will, and the attitude, and with the help from all of you on the forum, one day I'll know what the heck I'm doin ! ....Thanks again...

The biggest matter of non-standardization for C6 is the 1st string, where there is still a wide variety of opinion on whether to have a G or D string. I believe the D string continually becomes more and more popular all though there are still plenty of players playing a G on top. Other than that, the C6 tuning is just as much standardized (or not standardized, depending on your view) as E9, which is to say that the basics are used by most players and then there is some individual variation accordng to what the player wants to specialize in. The "standard" C6 tuning is a 5+1, meaning 5 floor pedals and 1 knee lever. Looking at the link to Buddy's setup, the 5 floor pedals (labeled 4,5,6,7,8) are standard EXCEPT for the first string raise on pedal 8. The only "standard" knee lever is the one that lowers the 3rd string to B, which is normally found on RKL, the way Buddy has it. The next knee lever that is somewhat less standardized is the one that raises string 4 from A to Bb. There is no real standard location for it, and half or more of the players that have it raise the 8th string as well. It can be on the left or right knee. Any remaining levers are, IMO, far from standardized, though many players use one, the other, or both of Buddy's additional changes if they have additional knee levers (don't forget, the big majority of steel guitars don't have more than two knee levers for C6). Other potential issues: the 4th pedal is not used by some players so they replace it with something else. A few players have similarly decided to not use pedal 8 (the "booh-wah" pedal). Some guitars have SIX C6 floor pedals, so they have an additional one to play with. Some players play around with changing the order of the floor pedals or moving floor pedals 7 or 8 to a knee lever. A few players have removed the 10th string and placed a middle "D" string between the C and E. And a few have 11 or 12 string tunings. But the sum total of all variations is just a fraction of what is standardized.

Jeff
"A few players have removed the 10th string and placed a middle "D" string between the C and E."
Which C and E string are we talking ??...2nd and 3rd string, or 6th and 7th ?...I think I will try both ways on the LKR where it raises the A to a Bb on the 4th string....I will do both the 4th and the 8th to see which works better for me..

One change that no one has mentioned is the C to C#, which if applied to the C-E-G-A series of the C6 tuning transforms the tuning into an A7 tuning. It also gives a nice progression of bar sliding 3rds, very similar to what the F lever does on the E9 tuning.

This is one of the keys to the 6th tuning I installed on my back neck, I'm using G6/E7, of course the idea can be transposed to C6/A7.

Here's the thread on my tuning:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/004545.html

My G6 transposed to C6 would look like this. The pedals are quite a bit different, but the C to C# change is probably the most important point, and it could be added easily to any "standard" C6 (best on a lever).

<font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
_________LK1___RK2___P1____P2____P3____P4_____P5______
1__C__________________________________________________
2__A ________________________+Bb_________________+B____
3__G_____________________________________________+A____
4__E_________________+F#_________________+F____________
5__C____+C#___-B__________________+D__________________
6__A________________________+Bb__________+B____________
7__G_________________-F#_________________________+A____
8__E_____________________________________+F_________
9__C____+C#___-B___________________+D__________________
10_A________________________+Bb____+G__________________
</pre></font>

(One more edit, I just checked and big surprise Buddy E has the change I am taking about on a lever, I didn't think I was the first to think of it)

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 11 December 2002 at 02:35 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 11 December 2002 at 02:35 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Scott Swartz on 11 December 2002 at 02:46 PM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>Which C and E string are we talking ??...</SMALL>

between 6 and 7

James;
Buddy's pedal chart can be found: Here!

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

A lot of guy's are droping the 4th pedal (1st C6 pedal). I droped raising the lower A string (just like I took it off of my raise and lower knee levers). But I've kep the high A to B change. I think it's really usefull. And sometimes I use it to play something that might have required me to put my right foot on the 7th pedal while left footing the 5th pedal.

You can (and maybe should) learn the C6 while you are still learning the E9. You have to move around more on the C6, but sooner or later you find the method for getting around that neck.

Regards,
HH

I raise the 7 string from (C to D) with RKR. I use it with the pedal 5 to get a D chord with an E in the middle (It's like having the D string added to the C6th). I also use it with pedal 7 to add a low 5th to the G6th (my first string is G).

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Bob Carden 66 Emmons P/P 8/9
BMI 13 string 7/7