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Topic: Sizing my steel to the right height |
Beverly Harris
From:
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 9 Jun 2014 8:49 pm |
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I got a new pedal steel guitar that I want to fit ME. I want to know how to determine the height that it needs to be. Do I measure knee height, degree of elbow bend… What is the most important thing to keep in mind? Are my arms supposed to be parallel to the floor? I can adjust the vertical lever to fit my knee, whatever height that I choose.
Thanks for any suggestions. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 2:21 am
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Do you already HAVE it, or is it on order?
Since these things are typically made to order, I'd get it BUILT for you, rather than adjusted to fit after delivery.
If you already have it, and you're short (or tall), I'd say that rather than arms parallel to the floor, the #1 important ergonomic factor is: does the wrist hump or dip as the arm transitions to hand?
If you're short of leg so that you sit low, that may require that the guitar be lower at the back, so that your arm/ wrist slopes up.
If the wrist dips or humps, you WILL cramp at the carpal tunnel.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Beverly Harris
From:
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 4:19 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
Do you already HAVE it, or is it on order?
Since these things are typically made to order, I'd get it BUILT for you, rather than adjusted to fit after delivery.
If you already have it, and you're short (or tall), I'd say that rather than arms parallel to the floor, the #1 important ergonomic factor is: does the wrist hump or dip as the arm transitions to hand?
If you're short of leg so that you sit low, that may require that the guitar be lower at the back, so that your arm/ wrist slopes up.
If the wrist dips or humps, you WILL cramp at the carpal tunnel. |
I got it about 3 weeks ago. It's new to me, not a new guitar. Wrist cramps is what is happening to me. My wrists dip. My husband lowered it to about 1/2 inch from the bottom of the adjustments so that we would have a little balancing options remaining. We wanted to be sure before he started cutting the rods. After dropping it that much, it just looks weird being that low. I certainly don't need WEIRD on my side. The guitar is a 12 string Sierra. There's lots of adjustments that I can do, just did't know the right ones to make. I'm about 5'5". |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 5:16 am
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Beverly,
Find a steel player to show you in person. There are way to many variables in your case. You can do more damage then good by blindly taking blind advice from the forum.
beginner +
feels awkward +
looks wierd +
husband with hacksaw =
Stop right now, turn off the computer and go get help !
There are plenty of great steel players near you.
_________________
Bob |
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Kevin Raymer
From:
Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 5:20 am
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Beverly,
I'm going through some of the same issues.
I got a used Zum D10 and I can't figure what the right fit is.
I also am wondering if my seat height is correct.
I started a topic thread on that subject and I was surprised how much conversation there was about that.
My major point of concern right now is getting my right knee free to work the levers while my foot sits on top of the volume pedal.
When I got the Zum it was set up with the back legs almost and inch higher than the front legs. I like the way that feels, but not the way it looks.
I fear this may take a while to figure out.
Good luck.
Kevin
_________________
Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 5:25 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Beverly,
Find a steel player to show you in person. There are way to many variables in your case. You can do more damage then good by blindly taking blind advice from the forum.
beginner +
feels awkward +
looks wierd +
husband with hacksaw =
Stop right now, turn off the computer and go get help !
There are plenty of great steel players near you. |
Good advice! Don't alter your steel without knowing exactly what's needed.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Kevin Raymer
From:
Chalybeate, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 5:33 am
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I would second Bob's suggestion.
Go sit in front of someone who knows what they are doing.
Find a good instructor if you can or have to.
ESPECIALLY before you cut something OFF... LOL
Cutting it off is a lot easier than putting it back... 
My decision to seek out an instructor was the best one I've made in this whole exercise.
I was just lucky that I found one like Mike Sweeney.
Kevin
_________________
Kevin Raymer
Zum / Knaggs / Breedlove
Fractal Audio |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 5:43 am
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| Looks weird???? Looks would NOT be a dominant factor. I think, GENERALLY speaking,,,parallel is the name of the game. Seat height adjusted to where your thigh (hip to knee) is pretty much parallel to floor,,,then forearm (elbow to wrist) parallel to that (elbow tucked into side). The space between forearm and thigh is where the body of the guitar is. JMHO |
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Beverly Harris
From:
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 5:46 am
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| Kevin Raymer wrote: |
Beverly,
I'm going through some of the same issues.
I got a used Zum D10 and I can't figure what the right fit is.
I also am wondering if my seat height is correct.
I started a topic thread on that subject and I was surprised how much conversation there was about that.
My major point of concern right now is getting my right knee free to work the levers while my foot sits on top of the volume pedal.
When I got the Zum it was set up with the back legs almost and inch higher than the front legs. I like the way that feels, but not the way it looks.
I fear this may take a while to figure out.
Good luck.
Kevin |
Kevin, I was assured that the lever/volume pedal was a practiced issue. My RKR is what I use to create a M7th. Sometimes, I kill the sound or either scream it. One of these days….. |
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Beverly Harris
From:
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 6:03 am
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| Sonny Jenkins wrote: |
| Looks weird???? Looks would NOT be a dominant factor. I think, GENERALLY speaking,,,parallel is the name of the game. Seat height adjusted to where your thigh (hip to knee) is pretty much parallel to floor,,,then forearm (elbow to wrist) parallel to that (elbow tucked into side). The space between forearm and thigh is where the body of the guitar is. JMHO |
Sonny,
Looks was not the dominant factor, but I took your advice and have gone through my house looking for a shorter chair. I have 2 Steeler's Choice chairs, but they are about the same height. Evidently, I must have shorter legs than I thought! I play barefoot. I may have to find the right heels.
We were mainly trying to adjust it because I am having cramps in my wrists after an hour or so of playing. |
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Jana Lockaby
From:
Kaufman, TX
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 6:05 am
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I agree with the others. There is a lot of knowledge here, but you will get confused with all the advice. I inherited my steel from a family friend, who was 6 ft 4. He was a giant compared to me. I'm 5 ft. 2. My husband was more than willing to "go to work" on my steel to size it for me. Luckily, the builder of my steel was, also, a very, close friend, so my husband had a lot of help.
Oh, the disagreements we had about how tall it should be. lol It didn't feel right, being as low as my friend told me it should be. In the end, he was right. I was wrong, and he had a lot of fun saying, "I told you so."
My steel fits me, and I no longer have bruises from the knee levers on my leg, or cramps in my hands/wrist. I can even play much better. I should have listened sooner. I would have been much happier.
There are a lot of players in Oklahoma, who would be happy to help you. If you don't know any, call Albert Tally, with the TSGA, he will know someone. You can get his number from www.texassteelguitar.org. (Texas Steel Guitar Association website) Good luck. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 6:08 am
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Been awhile since I've been in Oklahoma, and I'm going back to bed, so I won't look it up, but I thought broken arrow is near Oklahoma City. Prague, just east of OKC, is home to James Morehead, who'll certainly be able to show you how to adjust it for you..
Apologies for assuming it was a new guitar.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 10:46 am
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Beverly, Jana's advice is exactly correct. Contact Albert and get yourself pointed in the right direction with the help of an experienced player, and you too will be pickin' proud, and comfortably.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 12:12 pm
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Something you could try is an adjustable bench designed for a keyboard. The lowest end models will probably not go high enough for you but I bought one for around $50 at the local music store that has a pretty good adjustment range. It is around 20 inches wide and has 4 holes on each of the X frame sections so you have several different height possibilities. The little ones that around 14 inches wide will only go to about 20 inches high.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 4:18 pm
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Much depends on what type of guitar you're playing. A single neck/single body is more forgiving than a double neck. Also, where the knee levers are located makes a big difference. If they're near the center of the guitar, you'll have to sit closer to work them, and that can aggravate improper angles.
But in reality, it all boils down to where are you most comfortable, and what feels best to you. As the photo below shows, variations abound.  Just try to find a position that lets you operate everything without discomfort...there are no hard-fast rules. (I prefer to sit low, like Buddy and Jimmy Day.)
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 10 Jun 2014 7:07 pm
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Hey Bev
As I recall, you and I are about the same height (ca 5'5", +/-). I have my steels cut down to about 24.75 to 24.5 inches, bottom of endplate to floor. This is about 1.25 to 1.5 inches from the 26" standard. This is what's most comfortable for me, because I like to sit slightly over the guitar.
When I saw you playing the Sierra, I thought it was possibly a little too high for your ultimate playability. You probably should have sat at my guitar to see if it fit you more comfortably than the Sierra.
What instrument are you playing now?
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2014 5:47 am
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I am 5'5.5" and my guitars are 1" lower than standard. I can play a standard height guitar, but the shorter ones fit me better.
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Beverly Harris
From:
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2014 7:22 am
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Good morning Herb,
We talked about me sitting at your guitar before the night was through, but forgot to do that. Last night, Mike lowered the legs on the Sierra within a half inch of maximum, which brought the body base of the guitar to 25 inches. Therefore, we didn't have to have the legs cut. He then used his tap and die to adjust the rods. He put enough thread on there so that he would have some leeway for the pedals. It actually looks better than it did new, I'm sure. Mike sanded and buffed everything that shines on that guitar. He got almost every nick and scratch off it. I played last night after the adjustments and my wrists did not have the cramps that I'm usually faced with after a couple of hours. Hopefully, that will be the solution.
I love the sound of the Sierra and that is what I'm playing. I found out that I can use the 6th pedal which gives me that D string that is missing on the 12 string. I will continue trying to master the RKR to get that Dominant 7th chord, though. I sometimes have a major thrust on the volume pedal. It either screams or is silent when I'm trying to get to that RKR. I find that I use 7ths quite frequently, so I got to get that mastered.
I appreciate you greatly.
Beverly |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2014 8:09 am
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Beverly, you have some guys with a great deal of steel guitar knowledge there at the club meetings in Muldrow, Ok. Guys like Gene Haugh (Mr. Shobud) can give you excellent advice. You have a lot or resources right there.
Jerry
_________________
http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Beverly Harris
From:
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2014 9:38 am
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| Jerry Roller wrote: |
Beverly, you have some guys with a great deal of steel guitar knowledge there at the club meetings in Muldrow, Ok. Guys like Gene Haugh (Mr. Shobud) can give you excellent advice. You have a lot or resources right there.
Jerry |
You are right. A couple of weeks ago, Gene did a great demonstration on adjusting the springs, tuning…. He is one great guy!
I know that there's lots of close resources. Owasso dismissed this week because of Father's Day. It was just a case of "I want to do it and I want it done now".
Among all of the players at Owasso, Muldrow, and Siloam Spring, there's a ton of knowledge. It's just that every night, my wrist starts cramping after a couple of hours. My Sierra belonged to Jerry Knapper; therefore, it was set up for his size vs mine. I think Mike may have adjusted it pretty closely to what I need. My wrist didn't hurt so much last night.
Thanks, Jerry.
Beverly |
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2014 11:14 am
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Beverly, if your knees are not too close to the underbody of the guitar which would make the levers harder to activate you might try placing 1" X 4" blocks of wood under the legs to your seat which would raise you wrists another 3/4" which is not drastic but is probably plenty. This of course if you have not already solved the problem. Your seat could actually be too short.
Jerry
_________________
http://www.littleoprey.org/ |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2014 6:54 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| Been awhile since I've been in Oklahoma, and I'm going back to bed, so I won't look it up, but I thought broken arrow is near Oklahoma City. Prague, just east of OKC, is home to James Morehead, who'll certainly be able to show you how to adjust it for you. |
Beverly; giving James Morehead a call sounds like a great idea to me. Nothing beats a hands-on discussion and dialog about an issue with someone that has lots of experience.
FWIW; I set my rear legs a bit longer than the front legs so that that the guitar is tipped slightly away from me. This allows my wrist joints to be a little straighter (closer to the plane of my forearms) which for me irritates my wrists less than if I had the rear legs at the same length as the front legs.
This variation helped me with fit and improved my endurance while playing.
So there are lots of good guidelines and asking for help here on the Forum is a great start. But what works best for you will not be the same as what works best for another player.
_________________
Regards
-- Eugene <sup>at</sup> FJ45.com
PixEnBar.com
Cole-Luthierie.com
FJ45.com
Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2014 7:03 am
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| Jerry Roller wrote: |
Beverly, if your knees are not too close to the underbody of the guitar which would make the levers harder to activate you might try placing 1" X 4" blocks of wood under the legs to your seat which would raise you wrists another 3/4" which is not drastic but is probably plenty. This of course if you have not already solved the problem. Your seat could actually be too short.
Jerry |
Beverly, I'll add that I too like a slightly taller seat (to go with my slightly tipped-forward PSG) as I find that this is easier on my hips.
_________________
Regards
-- Eugene <sup>at</sup> FJ45.com
PixEnBar.com
Cole-Luthierie.com
FJ45.com
Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2014 8:30 am
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| In general, consider your posture to have roughly 90 degrees at every bend (knees, hips, and elbows) and have enough clearance to activate all of your pedals and knee levers including the volume pedal w/o hitting the bottom of the guitar with the tops of your knees and still have a bit of clearance. |
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