When Is It My Turn To Play?

[Lee Baucum]

I just had a flashback to a time a friend of mine asked me to come sit in with his band. He played Sunday afternoons at a large covered outdoor venue that was right next to the Rio Grande River.

When I got there, I was introduced to the other band members. My friend was the singer and he also played the fiddle. He had a great bass player and drummer. One guy doubled on guitar and keyboards.

I spent most of the day playing pads behind the singing and behind all the leads played by the guy playing guitar and keyboard. When he wasn't playing guitar, he was playing keyboard, non-stop. I was never given a chance to take any of the rides on any of the songs......and then......a young lady came up on stage to sing a few songs. She was a friend of the band and usually sang some songs with them. The first song she sang was I Fall To Pieces. Great song. No steel allowed, though. Then it happened...they started playing the recognizable intro to Blue Bayou. Finally...I would get to play something. She sang it quite well. Then it was time for that beautiful steel guitar ride. I started playing the signature intro to the ride....and here came the guitar player playing right over the top of me. He played the whole ride and when he was done, he played another one, on the keyboard.

They couldn't understand why I started packing up my gear during the next break......

[Herb Steiner]

Some players are really territorial about their turf.

I'll bet he never shared any of his toys when he was a child... A much younger child, since he's probably somewhat immature even to this day.

[Jerry Roller]

Lee, I had a very recent similar experience. I am sure the band I subbed in don't have a clue whether I can play a lick or not. I refuse to play over the top of someone else. It was a guitar heavy night. Herb is a very wise musician and said it well. A band without a band leader is very tough to play with unless all the players are extremely "band-wise". Someone needs to be the traffic cop on stage. Just a quick glance is all it takes and everyone gets to participate and the band can make music instead of noise. I'm sure most of us have experienced such a situation more than once.
Jerry

[Rick Barnhart]

It happens, Lee. just be thankful he didn't switch off between the banjo and mandolin.

[Jim Smith]

Back in the 80s we had a hot shot guitar player working "with" us in the Fort Worth Stockyards. Somebody requested Steel Guitar Rag. He kicked it off and played the whole thing. I never even got a ride.

[George McLellan]

Been there, done that. Same thing happened to me too Jim.

Geo

[Richard Sinkler]

Some players are really territorial about their turf.

I'll bet he never shared any of his toys when he was a child... A much younger child, since he's probably somewhat immature even to this day.

While this may be true, I view it as unprofessional and inconsiderate.

[Barry Blackwood]

I was never given a chance to take any of the rides on any of the songs....

I could envision this happening in other geographical areas of the country where pseudo-country bands just don't have a clue, but Texas?
It's yet another example of "does not play well with others." The musicians have only learned how to play their own instruments (apparently in a vacuum,) and not how to play together with others in a band setting. IMO, this immature group needs to be left to it's own devices...

[Henry Matthews]

When that happens to me, and believe me it has, I just sit there with my arms crossed and watch the crowd until break time, then I just pack up and leave.
If they ask me why I'm leaving, I tell them the truth, that they are a bunch of unprofessional garage pickers. Lost a few friends along the way.

[Barry Blackwood]

If they ask me why I'm leaving, I tell them the truth, that they are a bunch of unprofessional garage pickers. Lost a few friends along the way.

But (hopefully) gained a new respect for yourself..

[Jack Aldrich]

I have 3 commandments for musicians:
1. Don't give up your day job
2. Remember, if you're getting paid, it's a gig.
3. Listen!

The guy in question violated commandment 3. He isn't a real musician. It's been found that musicians' brains are active in both lobes when they are playing music, and, when a new musician enters the room, his (or hers) brain reacts in the same way. It's as close to ESP as they've ever found. It someone isn't listening, he can't have his brain in musicians' mode.

[Steve Spitz]

Been there. It's amazing that someone could be an accomplished instrumentalist, but know nothing of how to make music as an ensemble. You wonder if the usual offenders have listened to any recordings of the genre, and just didn't notice that it's not a jailbreak.

When I was green somebody older and wiser taught me. I was glad to learn, I wanted to learn. When to play, what to play, when to shut up.

I've been in a position to pay it forward, help a sideman on a pick up gig figure it out. Usually , they appreciate any guidance. It can be awkward if it's unwelcome advice.

Some guys don't want to hear somebody suggest when to play and when not to play. They don't care.

Once you've determined it's don't care vs. Don't know, it can't be fixed.

[Ray Minich]

Don't even try to explain. Those that don't understand the issue in the first place are not eligible for or receptive to "enlightenment". They would only dig their heels in deeper.

[Craig Baker]

Lee,
You launched a great thread here, that probably rings a bell with all of us. While everyone in this thread is right on target, I especially like the way Jack Alrich expressed it. Music is a form of communication. The better your communication skills, the better experience for all involved. There is a huge difference between listening. . . and waiting to talk.

Back in the 80s I was present at a show featuring Thumbs Carllile. The back-up group was pitiful. That day, I witnessed one of the funniest lines ever spoken: Thumbs turned to the band and said. . .
"You guys are really good. . . you oughta' play together some time."

Funny line, but unfortunately, they were all members of the "I-Don't-Get-It-Club.

Sincerely,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

[Donny Hinson]

Guitar players and piano players that have never worked with a steel or fiddle have no idea "when to leave a hole". They're not used to trading 4s, 8s, or anything else. They play continuously, and at the same volume, because that's what they've always done. They lack any knowledge of dynamics.

You can have 10 or 20 players playing at the same time...if they know dynamics. (Big bands do it all the time.) Without dynamics, though, more that one instrumentalist is a fight, a bore, and an exercise in futility.

[Richard Sinkler]

I can usually tell when a guitar player has been playing most in 3 piece bands. They never stop playing.

[Mitch Ellis]

Don't even try to explain. Those that don't understand the issue in the first place are not eligible for or receptive to "enlightenment".

That's exactly what I've noticed. I've had the "when to play" discussion many times with several different instrument players.....all for nothing. It went in one ear and out the other. Now, I try not to waste my breath. I just patently wait for the end of the gig and then go to the Waffle House and enjoy the peace and quite.

Mitch

[Doug Beaumier]

Some players are completely self-absorbed and have no sense of how to share the stage. No sense of how to TRADE FILLS with other players. It's like they've never listened closely to recordings and never noticed that different instruments back the vocalist in different sections of the song. They say they want a steel guitar in the band... and then they ignore the steel player... as if he's not even there, and play all the fills and solos. Very amateur, very unprofessional. It's happened to me a few times over the years, and I can remember walking off stage twice when this happened. Fortunately I haven't had to put up with this in many years.

I've had the "when to play" discussion many times with several different instrument players.....all for nothing. It went in one ear and out the other.

It's very frustrating. Players like that make me wonder... what kind of music have they been listening too all their lives? Have they ever paid attention to the backing instruments? They must have "cardboard ears"!

[Billy Carr]

Yep, been there, done that! I think music is for sharing. I respect the other guys when they play. Don't wanna let the steel player take his break or whatever? That's fine! I'd rather shake hands and hung all of the women in the crowd. Guitar/piano hogs don't need to show up at our steel shows in Mississippi. Nuff said! Hey Mitch! How you and the Zum doing?

[Jim Cohen]

Did I ever tell ya about the nonstop guitar player who wouldn't even give me a ride on SLEEPWALK!? WTF?? Last time I'll ever agree to play with him...

[Donny Hinson]

I can usually tell when a guitar player has been playing most in 3 piece bands. They never stop playing.

Exactly right, Richard, we've all noticed the same thing. Of course, the general concensus there seems to be now about steel players "laying out" hasn't exactly helped the situation.

Steeler's question: "When do y'all want me to come in on that song?"

Band's answer: "How about October?"

[Fred Glave]

Lee, welcome to my world. I deal with the same thing every Monday night only it's a sax player, keyboard and guitar that like to play steel guitar parts.

[Jeremy Marcum]

This is a great way to get to play if you are a steel player.

http://youtu.be/aDXCseAihWM

[Henry Matthews]

I just see that as a guitar player taking a steel players job or visa versa, lol

[Joachim Kettner]

On a side note, assuming that many steel players are also guitar players, they know very well if a guitarist is good or not. Good in a sense of not overplaying included.