The Steel Guitar Forum

ok---here's the deal. A 44 year old fellow plays guitar in a rockabilly band. He has messed around a little on a lap steel. He just bought a Fender 400. He wants to play steel for enjoyment and for the occasional song on the stand. He is not committing himself to the single-minded pursuit of PSG. Nor is he going to buy a 10 string guitar anytime soon (although you never know what might happen if the bug bites him good).

So----this has been discussed before but I've never found a good answer when someone asks me. For this guy in particular, is he better off with the lower 8 strings of the E9 neck, B to G#, low to high, or is he better off using the modern 'chromatic'strings and losing the low B and D? It is so 50/50 in my mind that I can't figure what to tell him, although for his rockabilly, retro interests I lean toward the pure 8 without the chromatics.

What kind of wisdom is out there?

also---can this guitar take an .011 on the G#? Or does it need to be tuned down to D9?

If it's a later model with the rocking cam changer,it'll take any tuning without breaking strings.If it's an earlier model with the little wire loops dragging the strings over that fixed non-rolling bridge,you'll indeed need to tune down to D9. I had a 400 when I was first starting out and tried it both ways - first losing the chromatics then losing the low B & D. Both ways were unsatisfying and I soon got rid of it and got a 10 string guitar. If I knew then what I know now or if I was even was going to play that guitar today, I'd put a C6 tuning on there.You could do a lot w/4 pedals and it would be great for rockabilly and retro country. -MJ-

Jon, try him on C6th with the inside 8 strings. No G or D on top & no C on the bottom. Pretty good starter into music rather than just pedal mashing on E9th. How many pedals on this 400?? OOPS! I re-read your post Jon....you said Rock-a-billy! let him mash, they won't be into music (w/theory & all that stuff) so let him go with the D9 maybe. I'm supposing no KL? They were not stock anyway?? Forget the top 2 strings! The chromatic runs etc are for country, right?<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 24 November 2002 at 06:16 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 24 November 2002 at 06:19 PM.]</p></FONT>

A few years ago I went from using a Stringmaster to a Fender 400(now I have three of them). They origanaly came with an A6 tuning and I tried that, but kept breaking strings so I just droped it down a whole step to G6 and thats what I've been using the past three years and havent broken a string yet. I don't remember what gauge the strings are, I just did a trial and error on it. If the string was to heavy it broke and if it was to small it sounded thin.
___P1__P2__P3__P4
G______________A
D__e
B______c
G__________F#__A
E
D__e
B______c
G__________F#

Sometime you end up using your right foot on the pedels more than the volume, but it makes it fun.
On another note, a fellow forumite came out to see me play last week and sugested that I ask around about someone who could change the cables on one of these to rods. Has anyone out there tried this?<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Alvin Blaine on 25 November 2002 at 01:15 AM.]</p></FONT>

I haven't personally seen it, but; I know it has been done! I don't think it is worth the time and expense. The cables seem to be satisfactory! I would tune from 1 to 8: E,C,A,G,E,C,A,F (C6) with pedal#1 Lower 4-1/2 tone to F#, and raise 8-1/2 tone to F#. pedal#2 Raise 1-1/2 tone to F, and lower 5-1/2 tone to Eb. pedal#3 raise 2&3 1 tone ea. to D&B. pedal#4 raise 6-1/2 tone to C# and lower 8-1/2 tone to E. These are the same changes that are pretty much standard on the 10 str. pedals 5,6,7,&8. And C6 is a pretty good all around tuning for any style or type of music! If it breaks strings 3 & 4, I would drop to a B6 w/same guage strings. "Big John" http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/doc <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by John Bechtel on 25 November 2002 at 02:22 AM.]</p></FONT>

I used to make my own cables, but I never tried making rods. I think you could & I'll bet it might be great if you were enough of a mechanic to get the cross shafts & bell cranks made. Go for it!

Hi Lads,
I think that the Rockabilly style would be best served using a pedal set-up that encompased the three main chord inversions.
E6,(Root on top) A6, (5th on top) and C6,(3rd on top) A guitarist can relate very easily to these tunings. ie. 3rd fret = G-C-Eb etc.

this CAN be done on a 4 pedal set-up, and include Maj7ths 9ths and 13b5ths
Forget the E9, Even In an 8 string format it's still too "Country" for Rockabilly.
Use something like these :- http://www.waikiki-islanders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tunings.html
The ones described as A7 etc.
I know these are 10 string , but they transfer to 8 string with no real diference.
Baz
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com


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<SMALL>Steel players do it without fretting</SMALL>

http://www.waikiki-islanders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Do anybody have Sneaky Pete's tuning?
I think he still plays a 400(and very well)
you might look at that one...
BF

------------------
Bill Ford

<SMALL>for his rockabilly, retro interests I lean toward the pure 8 without the chromatics.</SMALL>

I tend to agree. The 6th tunings are nice but there is plenty of that on e9 (mash those pedals).

The E9 requires a D string!! He will need lots of 9th chords and 13th chords.

Instead of high G# I might use high F#. But for a guitar player it is probably best to keep the high and low E strings that he is already familiar with: <font face="monospace" size="3"><pre>
P P
E
B ++C#
G# +A
F#
E
D
B ++C#
E
</pre></font>Then he can fool around with any other pedal changes.

Bill, Sneaky Pete´s tuning is here: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/001960.html
It needs more than four pedals, though, and I´m not sure I´d recommend it to a guitar player who only wants to play some steel. Of course, ol´ Sneaky could play everything on it, including R´n´R´ kind of stuff.
I tend to go with Earnest´s suggestion. I used to play a lot of rockabilly guitar and also had a lap steel (didn´t know anything about steel guitar tunings in those days) and somewhere found a tuning chart for C6, but could never really relate to it. As has been said, a guitar player can relate to E9 much easier and forget about the chromatics, they were not invented yet in the heyday of rockabilly.

Regards, Joe H.

Top notch suggestions, everyone. I have alerted him to this thread and I think it will be real informative for him. With what I gather about his needs and desires, I do believe that an E tuning of some sort is what he's looking for and I agree that the D is a must. I thank you and I expect that he appreciates the help too.

A couple of steel player from my old days in LA used the E9 or D9 on a Fender 400. What they did was tune it like this (Low to High)
D E F# G# B E G# F#. With the regular E9 floor pedals you can get a whole lot of good stuff on this tuning. Also try tuning pedal one to lower the G#'s to G. You can get most of the Ralph Mooney jewels on this tuning too. And like E.Bovine said "Mash those A & B pedals"....You can get the 6th stuff like that or use the B pedal and the D string as a root for some more positions.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 26 November 2002 at 05:15 AM.]</p></FONT>