The Steel Guitar Forum

Here is a little fun.

List your tuning and your chord then challenge others to achieve it in their tuning.

Example

Cm7b9

String # - Fret # - Note Names

07 - 8 - Db
08 - 8 - Bb
09 - 8 - G
10 - 8 - Eb
11 - 8 - C

Your Turn

Tuning: Open G.

Chord: C major.
Hmm...that's not as much fun as I thought it would be....

tuning: 6 string C6/A7

Cmin7b9...humm....

s.1 - 6 - Bb (b7)

s.3 - 6 - Eb (b3)
s.4 - 6 - Db (b9)
s.5 - 6 - Bb (b7)
s.6 - 6 - G (5)

and let the bass player earn his money

Stefan:
I can get your chord at fret6 using strings 4,5,6,7,&8 (I call the Db a C#)
Simple!

Dom

My regular tuning is an 8 string A6th with a flat 7th on the bottom. At the 6th fret I have:

From the bottom Db, Eb, G, Bb, C, Eb, G, Bb.

Do I get a Cupie Doll?

Dom...what in the world...do you call that beast

Brad, that's hilarious!

Dom, that's exactly the kind of charts I make, only with a lot less strings!

Jerome: I call it 12string A6th extended...

Brad, that's all you need if you play it with feeling!

C6th Flat5 Add 9 - C, E, F#, A, D

String # - Fret # - Note Names here is an inversion. Switching it up instead of just doing the root.

06 - 7 - E
07 - 7 - C
08 - 7 - A
09 - 7 - F#
10 - 7 - D

your turn

Looks like a pretty straightforward D9 to me.

i don't think i have ever in my life seen a C6b5+9 chord....most charts would say D9

Oh you have not lived. What joy it brings.

http://www.apassion4jazz.net/jazz_chords.html

Stanley can introduce you to them

http://www.stanleyjordan.com/en-us/

Cdim7 add flat9th - C, Eb, Gb, Bbb(A), Db

String # - Fret # - Note Names doing the root. Full chord.

06 - 4 - Db
07 - 4 - Bbb(A)
08 - 4 - Gb
09 - 4 - Eb
10 - 5 - C

your turn

Add a little moodier mellow feel than a standard Dim7. Feels like lonely blue colour.

But Stanley and other jazz musicians don't "achieve" chords the way you describe it in your original post. Even a jazz pianist who has 88 keys of a chromatic scale doesn't spell out every note in each extended or altered triad when comping. In fact, the coolest jazz voicings on both piano and guitar are often very spare, many of them rootless. I can play the third and the seventh of any chord and imply the harmony and the function of the chord just fine. The root is nice, but not really necessary. Other than learning where the individual pitches are on the fretboard in any given tuning, I see little reason to try to figure out how to play every note in an altered or extended triad at once, because nobody does that, even Stanley Jordan. You can "achieve" the chord with two or three notes.

Hmmm.. I do remember seeing Stanley say that he does deal with a huge amount of extended and altered chords HOWEVER I remember him also saying when he is playing he quite often still uses the root which gives the chord its base around that extended melody.

He also does it easily with his 10 finger tapping playing style.

And the simple idea that no one does that means:

1. They are playing accompanied
2. Select not to do it based around the core melody
3. There are too many instruments already in the song muddying up the frequencies
4. They simply can't i.e.. Lap Steel. FACT

Once you have the ABILITY to play the full chord you can then CHOOSE when you decide to use all the notes/intervals. This however is not the case if you CAN'T play the full chord to begin with.

Revolutionary ideas/progress doesn't happen if we don't continue to push the boundaries. Why settle rather than challenge oneself or our lap steel forum family. Thats where the fun is and that is the future.

i'm not a heavy theory guy - but trying to see how this chord (charted as C6b5+9) is used in a progression...what kind of chord would it follow and eventually lead to?
anytime i see 6th, i think the tune is at "rest" or at least a home chord - the +9 i easily see added, no problem, thats a standard 6/9. the b5 is what i dont get. is this 6b5 used as some leading chord to...?
**this is in ref to it being a C6b5+9...i'm aware that as a D9 it would serve logical harmonic functions.

The "challenge", as I see it, is working within whatever tuning you choose to create the chord progression, the harmonies, and the music you hear in your head. The fallacy, as I see it, is the idea that a particular tuning is objectively inferior to another based on that tuning's inability to voice every interval in some altered chord with one bar position.

Lee Cecil wrote:The "challenge", as I see it, is working within whatever tuning you choose to create the chord progression,...

Hmmm... people would forever travel with loads of different lap steels for different songs with different tunings. Some do but its not necessary knowing what we know now.

If that were the answer Pedal Steel would never exist

this argument existed before with the guitar - then Standardised
the Harmonica - then standardised
etc. the list goes on and on and on

So why do you still want to hold on to this notion of its not about being able to play the full chord and play any genre in ONE tuning. That thinking to me sounds backward. Its those ideas that sounds ridiculous if we apply it to the harmonica or guitar so why accept it on our beloved lap steel.

Sorry you won't get any support from me with avoidance and settling. I'd rather push past those boundaries and limitations.

push on, stefan!

I'm with you Stefan that knowing the mood or sound of a particular stack of notes played at once or in harmony is a valuable asset, but knowing them doesn't mean one must have them available at all times IMO.

I'm not against theory and know just enough to be dangerous, but this starts to seem like work and not play for me. I actually enjoy the work-arounds required at times on G tuned dobro.

I suppose it just depends on what one wants to hear him or herself play.

Push on, dude!

Thanks guys.

I just made the post so we could have some fun pushing those boundaries together. Didn't mean to upset or extensively debate but moreso to achieve, challenge and innovate.

Because the work that we may achieve could one day standardise and revolutionise our beloved instrument again.

Which could only mean popularise it beyond the realms of ...

"Oh you play Lap steel? Is that with a bottle?
You play country or Hawaiian? I heard a guy play blues on it you should check him out? - a terrible distorted 1, 4, 5 progression that clearly the guy plying it can't play anything else.

I want people to get on board and let's push the limits. The instrument is firmly established in Hawaiian. Now almost non-existent due to pedal steel in popular country. Not because of limitations of the instrument but limitations of the imaginations. Steel guitar used to always be "Lap Steel"

when did we take a back seat?

When we stagnate and no longer innovate then that's when the instrument dies. I am 33 and work in popular commercial radio. I am also one of few who even knows what a lap steel is and probably the only person who plays it I know.

That's what we are up against. I can go this alone but the journey would be faster with all of you on board.

Bill Hatcher, Maurice anderson (RIP, my hero), Mike Neer, are but a few.

Here comes an Uncle Sam line.

"Lap Steel Need's You"

Let's do this together. So we no longer keep the thumb up our arses and complain when the national instrument of Hawaii isn't the Lap Steel.

So all who are on board. Thanks. Let the revolution begin.

Let's keep the Chord wars going and also tackle Popular Music/well known classics. That's how we get back into the public eye.

eg.

Robert randolph "Hendrix & Michael Jackson covers"

get the idea. Let's come up with some Fresh ideas. Steinar RIP did hendrix in a basic form. Surely we can re-do with just the steel as the solo instrument. etc.

Something to think about. Let's keep Steel "Lap Steel" Guitar alive.