The Steel Guitar Forum

With the realization that the HUF is an absolute necessity for my musical preferences, I'm moving on to another problem area. In an effort to gain still another advantage, I'm currently putting together what will be referred to as the (CPC)*. The assembly will consist of 6 slimline pedals. The ABC pedals will be extended by approx. 3/4". The 4th add-on remains the same. Sandwiched between the A&B Pedals, and B&C pedals, two "short pedals" will make up the (CPC)*. I have pondered spacing, ample toe of shoe spacing, height differences, etc. It will feature the potential of 10 knee levers, taking into account the 5 knees already in place. My knee levers are of the swivel type, with down home knee comfort, made possible by foam padding. There are certain tones to be found on the steel, that are of the elusive type. My aim is to get to the changes, with fewer gymnastics.

Bill H.

Sounds sorta like Vance Terry's guitar, which had two complete rows of pedals.

Bobby Lee,

The word compact differentiates any other assembly. Further the proposed slimline pedals no doubt will impart a distancing from the norm. The CPC elimates the "bigfoot" approach by encouraging the player to reach designated changes, without the loss of "feel".

Bill H.

b0b, didn't I see Al Petty in Washington PA play a steel @ a Jeff Newman seminar (sponsored by Jim Thompson) with 20 pedals
with a 2 row configuration?? That was about 1979! I think Jim is a forumite & I know he's still a nice S12 steel player!!

Doug, that was probably Al Petty's Dekley that I built him with heel & toe pedals. he currently plays a single 12 GFI with basically the same arrangement.

You can see a picture of Al and his guitar here: http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/petty.html

Bill, please post a picture.

Mike P.,

Thank you for your interest. Please allow a week to 10 days for pictures. Do you have close-up photos of your heel and toe pedal arrangement of 24 pedals. Of course this variation of mine will feature 2 short step-up pedals, that will serve up a few richly rewarding pitch changes. I want to always be in close proximity with the A&B pedals. The 5th string seems to be linked in some way to virtually every melody line. One of the short pedals will work the 5th for all its worth.

Bill H.

I wanted to point out that the (CPC) is designed to deliberately avoid having to chase around with the foot, trying to locate pedals for pitch changes. Virtually, all the necessary changes will be in easy reach. I want to keep the split pedal option in mind; also, as there are many chords which require the separation of octaves.

Bill H.

Bill, These "short pedals" that are "sandwiched between the A&B and B&C pedals" make good sense if one wants to aviod the short pedals, since they don't extend out as far as the other pedals. But what if one wants to use only a short pedal and avoid an extended pedal? Also, there are hundreds of licks using pedals A&B together, rocking off the A pedal while holding down the B pedal in particular. I'm not sure I'd want another pedal (just 3/4" shorter) in between those two pedals. Just my opinion.

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<font size=-1>My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories</font>


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 29 October 2002 at 08:25 AM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>Mike P... Do you have close-up photos of your heel and toe pedal arrangement of 24 pedals.</SMALL>

Bill you've got me confused with Al Petty. It's an easy mistake to make. He also has a piece of wood with some wires attached.

I did try out a guitar with heel pedals though. A Sierra. Blackie Taylor had it in his shop. The heel pedals replaced the knee levers. I found it to be very awkward and didn't like it at all. As I recall, Blackie didn't like it very much either.

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My gear: A piece of wood with some wires attached

Mike, that Sierra may have been one of Al's as well. He's had several brands.

Doug B.,

There has been a slight oversight on your part, (perhaps I didn't make myself clear in explaining), one or the other is true. The short pedal will be back far enough to accomodate the usual placement of footwear. The A,B, & C pedals will be lengthened about 3/4 of an inch to allow for additional spacing. The short pedals will be on a higher level to provide access without actuating the A,B,& C pedals.

Bill H.

Jim, I saw Al's 20 pedal Sierra. It was a D-12 with an E9/B6 universal on one neck, and some third tuning on the other. As I recall it had 4 knee levers in addition to the 20 pedals.

The guitar I saw at Blackie's was an S-10, with three toe pedals, three heel pedals, and no knee levers. It might have been AL's, but I believe it was not. I think they made the guitar and put it Blackie's shop to see if there was any interest.

Bill, what kinds of changes would you put on these new pedals, and how would you be able to use them while working the A anbd B pedals the way we normally do?

Will you still have a LKV, Bill?
The idea of raising your foot above ABC to enguage the CPC might cause your leg to hit the bottom of the guitar or LKV, no?

Please post somemore pictures of your experiments!
Thx,
Pete B.

Mike P.,

I'll post my set up that is already in place soon. One thing I've noticed while discussing knee levers with steel guitarists, and that is, I feel the emphasis on the 1st and 7th strings raises is too weak. I've always had that change on LKV, and it is used constantly in combination with A&B pedals. I cannot overstress the importance of properly locating those two changes. Mike, you can be sure that the 5th will go down to Bb as one of the changes linked into the short pedals arrangement. The full tone 1st. raise, and the 2nd string 1/2 tone raise are all on the LKV, that once raised only the 1st, and 7th. strings 1/2 tone.

There is a stumbling block in the 9th tuning that can be noticed when a backward gliss is attempted while playing off the 7th string. It occurs if the 9th string raised is included with the 7th raised and the player wishes to gliss back to a resonating 7th chord. It can't be done with the standard setups to date IMO. I hope that I'm incorrect for obvious reasons. The short pedals may very well offer inroads, to a solution. To make the 7th fair game when unloading knees and pedals from a major chord, to a 7th, by using a simple half-step reverse gliss would be very much desired. Pictures will be forthcoming when most of the work is completed. By this, I mean that there will be some explorations of multiple options.

Bill H. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 29 October 2002 at 12:59 PM.]</p></FONT>

Julian Tharpe

Hey Mike,
I saw that steel at Blackie's the day Al Petty did a show in back of the store in Orange. Al sat on something like a piano bench where his legs sort of dangled and his heels didn't touch the floor. That was the way he could get to everything easy. Also in the sixties a friend of mine (Al Brown) was playing drums for Al P. in Long Beach at the lounge in the bottom of the Breakers Hotel. Al had a Fender 1000 double eight with the double row of pedals. You wouldn't believe what he could do with that thing. Also around that time our good buddy from GFI
ol' Gene Fields was playing the same type of guitar. I think they put them together at Fender. I believe that Gene actually built the first one but it was for Al Petty. He was quite a craftsman when it comes to the steel. As far as Vance Terry goes, if he had one if was after Al and Gene. Gene probably built it for him........

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 29 October 2002 at 02:49 PM.]</p></FONT>

284 to go....

Pete B.

The LKV is "high and dry", and will not cause a problem, or interfere with the CPC arrangement. Good thinking though, on your part. It really takes very little, in some mechanical changes, to upset plans to move ahead. I appreciate the inquiry.

Bill H.

Andy A.,

Would you care to elaborate on your concise offering? I'm really curious to know more about the individual named in the mild retort. Thanks....

Bill H.

In order to facilitate the use of the revolutionary CPC without the mundane tedium of the repitious redundacy of physical exertions I might suggest the use of modern behavioral techniques. By creating a device that induces pleasurable sensations installed in ones pac a seat when the correct pedals are pushed the learning curve could be shortened by the scientifically proven cause and effects of positive reinforcement. You could call it the "Hankey Pankey".

Bob

As fate would have it...

...My baby does the hanky panky.

Bob, I believe that if you comprehensively appreciated the extra facilitiation that the advanced CPC is to be carefully crafted to offer, your significantly circumlocutory floccinaucinihilipilification could be avoided, amusingly rambunctious as it is. Bill's thoroughly considered invention would surely be appreciated by practitioners of the aforementioned instrument from Zanzinbar to Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrn-drobwllllandyssiliogogogoch (it's in Wales).

Ian

Ian F.,

There is a place in Webster, MA, U.S.A., where country music entertainers go to perform during the summer months. The place is called Indian Ranch. I went there in the eighties to interview Lynn Anderson for the "Country Music Record" monthly tabloid. Vacationers who visit there, can use the camping facilities, and enjoy my favorite music, (country music). There is a large lake there, with the longest name I've ever seen. It's an American Indian name that means, "You fish on your side of the lake, and I'll fish on mine". This bit of trivia came to mind while reading your reply. Thanks for your amusing correspondence.

Bill H.

<SMALL>I saw that steel at Blackie's the day Al Petty did a show in back of the store in Orange.</SMALL>

I was there too Jerry. That was before we knew each other. You and I met in December of '81 when you were playing with Clark Rohn at the D.J. Ranch, and I was with Jerry Eugene across the street at the Country Comfort. Jerry was the guy who was murdered on a gig in 1993. You probably heard all about it.