wood vs mica
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 8:09 am
Has enyone ever tryed to take a mica & cutout places so that al the metal parts such as the key head.neck.brige would rest on the woodbody itself? just wandering dana
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Has enyone ever tryed to take a mica & cutout places so that al the metal parts such as the key head.neck.brige would rest on the woodbody itself? just wandering dana
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 8:16 am
I Could be Wrong but I don't think so!! What would be the purpose for doing this?? 
..
..Posted: 8 Feb 2000 9:22 am
One good reason for doing that could be, to avoid the wood/<u>contact gum glue</u>/mica - sandwich configuration.
That's why I don't play kitchen cabinets anymore.
... J-D.
That's why I don't play kitchen cabinets anymore
.... J-D.
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 10:20 am
I don't think I have ever played a kitchen cabinet are they hard to play and tune?? 
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 10:36 am
not hard to tune but it's a bitch getting to seat to stay up near the ceiling and hard to work the pedals upside down
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 10:46 am
Well said JD. I've been looking for a way to say how much better my steel guitar sounds since I got away from the Kitchen Cabinet guitars as we know them. Besides even if you made contact with the cheezy plywood underneath the kitchen countertop; how well is that gunna sound? Go with a real wood guitar and you will never have those sound and tone questions again.
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Ricky Davis
ICQ# 62060713
http://hometown.aol.com/sshawaiian/RickyHomepage.html
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
sshawaiian@aol.com
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Ricky Davis
ICQ# 62060713
http://hometown.aol.com/sshawaiian/RickyHomepage.html
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
sshawaiian@aol.com
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 11:05 am
Hey Ricky,
Your ex-"kitchen cabinet" sounds pretty good to me.....
BT
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bterry.home.netcom.com
Your ex-"kitchen cabinet" sounds pretty good to me.....
BT
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bterry.home.netcom.com
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 1:14 pm
I'm happy to see nobody took offense on the kitch-cab comment
Anyway, personally, I feel that mica being a very hard and quite brittle material, I has all the caracteristics needed for a good sounding material. It's also quite flat (on the top side), so that there could be good contact between it and any hardware screwed on top of it, if these parts happen to be flat too. And then, it's so scratch and stain resistant... <font size="2">and it looks soooo good... </font><font size="1">and there are so many nice colors like "high gloss black", "nite black", "jet black", "dark black" and so many other cool colors...</font>
BUT, to me the real yet unsolved issue is the glue between the actual cabinet and the mica.
I have a similar problem with lacquer, BTW. Multiple coats of lacquer may very well give the ultimate big $$'s look, but it also results into a less flat surface.
I think that Dana's suggestion is valid in both cases (mica and lacquer). The hardware could very well be mounted on the sealed wood cabinet. Sure, it would be a more time consuming process, thus more expensive (as if these things weren't expensive enough), but who cares...
... J-D.
Anyway, personally, I feel that mica being a very hard and quite brittle material, I has all the caracteristics needed for a good sounding material. It's also quite flat (on the top side), so that there could be good contact between it and any hardware screwed on top of it, if these parts happen to be flat too. And then, it's so scratch and stain resistant... <font size="2">and it looks soooo good... </font><font size="1">and there are so many nice colors like "high gloss black", "nite black", "jet black", "dark black" and so many other cool colors...
</font> BUT, to me the real yet unsolved issue is the glue between the actual cabinet and the mica.
I have a similar problem with lacquer, BTW. Multiple coats of lacquer may very well give the ultimate big $$'s look, but it also results into a less flat surface.
I think that Dana's suggestion is valid in both cases (mica and lacquer). The hardware could very well be mounted on the sealed wood cabinet. Sure, it would be a more time consuming process, thus more expensive (as if these things weren't expensive enough
), but who cares...... J-D.
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 1:27 pm
Yeah Bill; that particular "Kitchen Cabinet" I had that I sold to you; was a particularly great sounding one. Your one lucky devil. Oh I meant to tell you when you were over here yesterday; your right hand is in a great position; eventhough it's a bit flater than I would like to see; but nevertheless; I didn't say anything because somehow you have put the picks in a "Perfect" position to pick very cleanly; like your doing. I am impressed. Keep up the good work; your doing great.
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Ricky Davis
ICQ# 62060713
http://hometown.aol.com/sshawaiian/RickyHomepage.html
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
sshawaiian@aol.com
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Ricky Davis
ICQ# 62060713
http://hometown.aol.com/sshawaiian/RickyHomepage.html
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
sshawaiian@aol.com
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 5:42 pm
The great thing about playing a kitchen cabinet is that you always have a place to store all your gear.
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Carter D10 8p/10k
www.sinkler.com
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Carter D10 8p/10k
www.sinkler.com
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 5:59 pm
Damn Ricky, I guess Buddy's been wrong all these years. Who's gonna tell'em. Double B
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 7:39 pm
oh man you mean I have been siting on my cabinet and playing my steel all these years and I should have been sitting on my steel playing my cabinet I guess I was mixed up?
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 8:06 pm
Try as I might, I can't let this one pass!
I nominate my old friend Ricky to tell Emmons, Charlton, Franklin, Rugg, Hughey, Myrick, Garrish, Bouton, White, Turner, and... well, that'll do for starters... that they're now playing the "wrong" guitar.
I'll let you use my phone card if you let me tape their responses RD!
Spare the flames, boys. Ricky and I are the oldest of friends! Except for Perlowin, and I give him more crap than anyone except Frank Estes!
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members.aol.com/herbs10178/index.html
I nominate my old friend Ricky to tell Emmons, Charlton, Franklin, Rugg, Hughey, Myrick, Garrish, Bouton, White, Turner, and... well, that'll do for starters... that they're now playing the "wrong" guitar.
I'll let you use my phone card if you let me tape their responses RD!
Spare the flames, boys. Ricky and I are the oldest of friends! Except for Perlowin, and I give him more crap than anyone except Frank Estes!
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members.aol.com/herbs10178/index.html
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 8:17 pm
Seriously, though some players may feel that they have discovered the "right" finish for a steel guitar, they have really only discovered what they currently feel is "good" for them. Or the "right" pickup, brand of strings, amp, preamp, etc.
What guitar/whatever is "right," "good," has "that sound," etc. is totally subjective, and varies from guitar to guitar and brand to brand. And even from night to night and bandstand to bandstand.
If you have a current preference, great! Enjoy every moment you spend playing that choice. And keep your mind and your ears open. If Buddy Emmons were to start playing a pink styrofoam guitar strung with rubber bands, I guarantee that SOMEBODY on this forum would start talking about the newly discovered sonic properties of pink styrofoam.
That's just the kind of opinionated animal the steel guitar player is.
One more thing: The vast majority of mica covered guitars are made from planks of hard rock maple. Only some MSA's and most Dekley's that I am aware of were made from laminates
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<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 08 February 2000 at 08:20 PM because he felt it was, like, really necessary.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 08 February 2000 at 08:28 PM.]</p></FONT>
What guitar/whatever is "right," "good," has "that sound," etc. is totally subjective, and varies from guitar to guitar and brand to brand. And even from night to night and bandstand to bandstand.
If you have a current preference, great! Enjoy every moment you spend playing that choice. And keep your mind and your ears open. If Buddy Emmons were to start playing a pink styrofoam guitar strung with rubber bands, I guarantee that SOMEBODY on this forum would start talking about the newly discovered sonic properties of pink styrofoam.
That's just the kind of opinionated animal the steel guitar player is.
One more thing: The vast majority of mica covered guitars are made from planks of hard rock maple. Only some MSA's and most Dekley's that I am aware of were made from laminates
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members.aol.com/herbs10178/index.html
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 08 February 2000 at 08:20 PM because he felt it was, like, really necessary.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 08 February 2000 at 08:28 PM.]</p></FONT>
Posted: 8 Feb 2000 11:04 pm
Ok; Ok; OK I get the message. Actually my good friend and brother Herb Steiner had a brilliant "Second" reply. What he said about ones selection for a steel that they have found to be the best for them; should be "Written in Stone" with their picks, mind you!!! I really believe that what Herb said; but to go further to the edge of the cliff; I would have no problem telling anyone of them Legends they are playing the wrong guitar; and everyone of them will say>"yeah I know Ricky your right but this guitar plays easier and it's lighter and I like the sound just fine" "But; I sure liked my ole>insert real wood guitar here_______!.
Remember that Buddy Emmons cut "Night Life" on a Sho~Bud through a Fender Twin and still wonders about putting that combination under his fingers; today.
Yes I know; I'm being overly pompus on this; and I really don't mean to come off that way; but this is really just some comments and soul searching statements I'm making that everone goes through; and I'm not saying that this is the way it should be(read Herbs second reply again; it's great);but we all know inside our ownselves what is the real deal I want; but tend to overlook to the easiest least expensive methods of achieving what we are trying to do; or at least that's what I did for years.
Herb my brother; I have heard just about everyone of your guitars that you have had under your fingers since I met you back in the early '80s; and they of course all sound great; but remember that Sho~Bud you had when I first met you? Well you know deep down that was the best sounding pedal steel you've had>go ahead admit it on WWW.
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Ricky Davis
ICQ# 62060713
http://hometown.aol.com/sshawaiian/RickyHomepage.html
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
sshawaiian@aol.com
but this guitar plays easier and it's lighter and I like the sound just fine" "But; I sure liked my ole>insert real wood guitar here_______!.Remember that Buddy Emmons cut "Night Life" on a Sho~Bud through a Fender Twin and still wonders about putting that combination under his fingers; today.
Yes I know; I'm being overly pompus on this; and I really don't mean to come off that way; but this is really just some comments and soul searching statements I'm making that everone goes through; and I'm not saying that this is the way it should be(read Herbs second reply again; it's great);but we all know inside our ownselves what is the real deal I want; but tend to overlook to the easiest least expensive methods of achieving what we are trying to do; or at least that's what I did for years.
Herb my brother; I have heard just about everyone of your guitars that you have had under your fingers since I met you back in the early '80s; and they of course all sound great; but remember that Sho~Bud you had when I first met you? Well you know deep down that was the best sounding pedal steel you've had>go ahead admit it on WWW.
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Ricky Davis
ICQ# 62060713
http://hometown.aol.com/sshawaiian/RickyHomepage.html
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
sshawaiian@aol.com
Posted: 9 Feb 2000 3:06 am
Wood vs Mica is one of those, whatever you think is best things. There's no one right answer. Personally, I've never heard a Sho-Bud that I really really liked. For years they were THE guitar to have, but then for years they were basically the only show in town.
But then I don't like the sound of the wood body/neck Emmons' as well as the Mica/Aluminum neck models.
I like Herb's first answer better....
As far as comparisons to kitchen cabinets. I don't know of any kitchen cabinets made of hard rock maple/mica.
This subject could have just as well been "George L's pickups vs Bill Lawrence pickups". It's just whatever each person thinks is better.
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Franklin D-10
Keep It Country, Hoss
But then I don't like the sound of the wood body/neck Emmons' as well as the Mica/Aluminum neck models.
I like Herb's first answer better....
As far as comparisons to kitchen cabinets. I don't know of any kitchen cabinets made of hard rock maple/mica.
This subject could have just as well been "George L's pickups vs Bill Lawrence pickups". It's just whatever each person thinks is better.
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Franklin D-10
Keep It Country, Hoss
Posted: 9 Feb 2000 7:14 am
Well, Ricky, it's true... my old 1970 SB Professional did sound "good," but why did I go to Emmons? Because I preferred the Emmons sound and couldn't get it out of my 'Bud, even though the 'Bud sounded fine.
BTW, I have owned 6 SB's in my career, and only that Professional and my current '67 Fingertip had the sound that I liked. The others sounded, to me, like doggie poop. Hammered doggie poop at that.
Yes, Buddy played Night Life on a Sho~Bud, but there were no Emmons guitars at the time. Three years later he recorded the Touch My Heart album on a black mica wraparound, through a Standel amp and Gibson Reverb unit. For many, this Ray Price album is an equal benchmark for steel guitar tone.
There really can be no comparison between the two individual guitars in question, since the Sho~Bud... at that time, mind you, 1965... was mechanically quite inferior to the Emmons guitar.
And then there's the "black album," which was cut on a 1968 rosewood mica cut-tail. Of course, no one really likes that album all that much...
Here's my bottom line: if you primarily dig the mid-60's-present Buddy Emmons/Weldon Myrick/Buddy Charlton tone, you probably like a mica guitar. If your benchmark is the great cuts by Lloyd Green and Pete Drake, you probably like the Sho~Bud tone.
Regardless, its going to be quite awhile before a beginner has the chops to achieve either of these classic tones, and by the time he has acquired the chops to worry about tone, he should have enough experience to make a decision for himself. Or else doesn't have enough personal confidence to do so.
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BTW, I have owned 6 SB's in my career, and only that Professional and my current '67 Fingertip had the sound that I liked. The others sounded, to me, like doggie poop. Hammered doggie poop at that.
Yes, Buddy played Night Life on a Sho~Bud, but there were no Emmons guitars at the time. Three years later he recorded the Touch My Heart album on a black mica wraparound, through a Standel amp and Gibson Reverb unit. For many, this Ray Price album is an equal benchmark for steel guitar tone.
There really can be no comparison between the two individual guitars in question, since the Sho~Bud... at that time, mind you, 1965... was mechanically quite inferior to the Emmons guitar.
And then there's the "black album," which was cut on a 1968 rosewood mica cut-tail. Of course, no one really likes that album all that much...
Here's my bottom line: if you primarily dig the mid-60's-present Buddy Emmons/Weldon Myrick/Buddy Charlton tone, you probably like a mica guitar. If your benchmark is the great cuts by Lloyd Green and Pete Drake, you probably like the Sho~Bud tone.
Regardless, its going to be quite awhile before a beginner has the chops to achieve either of these classic tones, and by the time he has acquired the chops to worry about tone, he should have enough experience to make a decision for himself. Or else doesn't have enough personal confidence to do so.
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members.aol.com/herbs10178/index.html
Posted: 9 Feb 2000 10:28 am
Well said again Herb my brother. I agree because I like something about every kinda guitar. Everyone has an influence of a sound in their own head; or they hear a sound they are trying to get from their Heart/Head; and that is the best sound for them when they can finally pronounce it to their satisfaction.
Ricky
Ricky
Posted: 9 Feb 2000 10:34 am
So Herb, in other words, an Emmons PP lacquer does not have THE tone? Or, would we now want to put an all-pull changer on that '64 mica PP?
I think we are drifting a little bit again into the MY guitar/YOUR guitar-thing.
This is not really what I understood this thread was about... Well.., my fault, after all I had to drop the kitch-cab comment...
Anyway, while it is true that there have been excellent sounding guitars with both lacquer or mica (hey, Bigsby's were lacquered, now weren't they..), there also are a lot of average sounding ones out of both camps. The goal eventually is to narrow the spread between the few exceptional ones and the average ones (without of course lowering the standards).
I don't think that there is no right answer. Maybe so if Dana had just asked lacquer or mica?, but Dana's question went much further and included a suggestion.
I think that if we just lay back and say well so-and-so sounded good on such-and-such (so we got the good thing, so why bother).. we're going to stop advancing and the instrument we love so much will cease to exist in a short time (it's existance is endagered enough already!).
There is more than ample room for improvement on most if not all the guitars around (even mine and yours).
BTW, I think that Dana's suggestion can be compared with what they tried to achieve with the bolt on changer in '66. Better contact to the sound board should or at least could result into better tonal caracteristics..., don't you think so? So I feel it's a subject worth talking about...
... J-D.
I think we are drifting a little bit again into the MY guitar/YOUR guitar-thing.
This is not really what I understood this thread was about... Well.., my fault, after all I had to drop the kitch-cab comment...
Anyway, while it is true that there have been excellent sounding guitars with both lacquer or mica (hey, Bigsby's were lacquered, now weren't they..
), there also are a lot of average sounding ones out of both camps. The goal eventually is to narrow the spread between the few exceptional ones and the average ones (without of course lowering the standards). I don't think that there is no right answer. Maybe so if Dana had just asked lacquer or mica?, but Dana's question went much further and included a suggestion.
I think that if we just lay back and say well so-and-so sounded good on such-and-such (so we got the good thing, so why bother).. we're going to stop advancing and the instrument we love so much will cease to exist in a short time (it's existance is endagered enough already!).
There is more than ample room for improvement on most if not all the guitars around (even mine and yours).
BTW, I think that Dana's suggestion can be compared with what they tried to achieve with the bolt on changer in '66. Better contact to the sound board should or at least could result into better tonal caracteristics..., don't you think so? So I feel it's a subject worth talking about...
... J-D.
Posted: 12 Feb 2000 10:35 pm
Yeah!!! What Herb Said
Posted: 13 Feb 2000 12:56 am
Actually as I read back through this I think I forgot to say; "I was just pullin' your leg". I don't think this disscussion matters one bit in the way of "Tone". I think everything you can conceiveably think of, has to do with the "Tone" produced. I can make any guitar that I'm playing sound 14 different ways; and It's the same guitar>duh!!
So shut up and play!!!>Ricky
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Ricky Davis
ICQ# 62060713
http://hometown.aol.com/sshawaiian/RickyHomepage.html
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
sshawaiian@aol.com
So shut up and play!!!>Ricky
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Ricky Davis
ICQ# 62060713
http://hometown.aol.com/sshawaiian/RickyHomepage.html
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html
sshawaiian@aol.com
Posted: 13 Feb 2000 3:00 am
<SMALL>So shut up and play!!!</SMALL>
yeah, what Ricky said!!
Posted: 13 Feb 2000 4:25 am
WHERE CAN I GET ONE OF THOSE PINK STYROFOAM RUBBERBAND GUITARS!!!
Posted: 13 Feb 2000 6:24 am
Can I get one of those in rosewood please!
Posted: 13 Feb 2000 12:53 pm
No Ronney, only pink strofoam. Sorry.
Herb and Ricky pretty much said it all. I love the sound of wood and mica guitars. My first 2 were ZB Customs (all wood), next was a Kline (Mica), Sho-Bud Super Pro (all wood) and last a Carter (mica). The only real disappointment was the Sho-Bud. While it sounded good, it didn't have the sound of the older Sho-Bud Professionals. I did put Bill Lawrence pickups on it that I got from Tommy White, and it sounds a whole lot better now.
Ok now, let's here about wallpaper covered guitars...
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Carter D10 8p/10k
www.sinkler.com
Herb and Ricky pretty much said it all. I love the sound of wood and mica guitars. My first 2 were ZB Customs (all wood), next was a Kline (Mica), Sho-Bud Super Pro (all wood) and last a Carter (mica). The only real disappointment was the Sho-Bud. While it sounded good, it didn't have the sound of the older Sho-Bud Professionals. I did put Bill Lawrence pickups on it that I got from Tommy White, and it sounds a whole lot better now.
Ok now, let's here about wallpaper covered guitars...
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Carter D10 8p/10k
www.sinkler.com