The Steel Guitar Forum

How much of a bend should the fingers of the right hand have? What I have noticed watching others is that there is a substantial bend in the fingers at the first finger joint,the fingers attack the strings almost like a claw with the picks bent almost straight up.
I have tried to play like that but with my very long fingers it just doesn't feel right so I play with my fingers only slightly bent,more of an open hand. I am not finding any problems playing this way.
I use national picks just as they come not altered with only a slight curve up.
Does this really matter? I would like to find out now before I develop a bad habit Thanks.

This is what I try to emulate. Note the bend to the picks, the way the hand is perpendicular to the strings which puts the heel in a good position to block, the tilt of the hand, the thumb jutting out so as to be parallel to the strings and to not interfere with the fingers. I try to keep the hand floating just above the strings, after lifting it to pick. Keep the tilt of the hand the same whether it's lifted or whether it's down to block. Don't roll your wrist to the left and right as you pick.

Another great example of this style in action is Gary Carter's youtube video of The Light House Tale. He has some camera shots showing what I would call perfect right hand position and action.

You'll probably get a different opinion from every one that you encounter. Good luck to you. Hope this helps.
Most folks will recognize this as the hand of Jeff Newman.

Thank you Darrell, must the picks then be bent upwards to accommodate the fingers being tucked under so?

play the way its comfortable for you.

that bent finger technique looks so uncomfortable. i use the alaska picks. no metal "spike" hitting the strings and the flesh of your finger is not covered up. its like using your natural nail and the combination of using the finger pad and the palm to dampen strings when you want is so much easier. i use two alaska picks (middle and ring) and use the nail on my first finger and pinky. sometimes a thumb pick and sometimes not.

This pic is slightly out of focus, but here's the right hand of "The Big E," compliments of Clem Schmitz.

Hard to argue with the results achieved by this right hand.

Deirdre,
As for the bend of the picks:
I'd suggest trying various pick bend angles to see what feels and sounds best for your hand and your hand position. Try various thumb picks too. As you experiment with different hand positions you will find that you may need a shorter or longer tang on the thumb, and naturally you want something comfortable. There is truly nothing universally accepted when it comes to these factors. You'll know you've hit a good combination. The sound will tell you.

This comes up fairly often when I'm teaching standard six string guitar, and I've found that the classical stuff I did in college really helped in my transition to the steel guitar, so I'll chime in.

What you refer to above as a bent hand posture is, to me, more of a relaxed hand posture. To show you what I mean, hold up your right hand in front of yourself, like you're inspecting your thumbnail, and just let it completely, totally relax. The thumb remains perpendicular to the ground but the fingers fall into a gentle curve. And, with a little finagling to position the fingers over the strings, that's pretty much it. That's the shape a great many classical guitarists use and, with the exception of the pinky hooked under the first string--which I've always found incredibly strange and uncomfortable--that's sort of what Buddy's hand looks like.

Personally, I found that when I took up steel guitar, this hand shape has to be placed very close to the strings to get the proper angle of attack, which made palm blocking a breeze.

But at the end of the day, do whatever is comfortable to you. If there's one thing that probably applies, irrespective of hand shape, it's moving the digits from the big knuckles at the hand and not from the mid-finger knuckles. I.e., you probably don't want to use a come hither gesture when you pick. The knuckles that contact the hand are where its power really transfers into the fingers, and so moving from the those knuckles will get a bigger sound.

Should you happen to be interested in the classical guitar perspective--those players have thought about this stuff a lot--maybe try and find a used/library-held copy of Scott Tennant's Pumping Nylon, which has a corny title but is pretty much required reading for serious classical players. There's a bunch of stuff in there that doesn't apply to steel guitar (obviously), but it's worth checking out if you're curious.

if you look at veteran steel players, you will find several variations on this right hand posture, as well as 1/2 dozen different ways they wear & shape their picks which adds to the mix (and confusion).

the reason for the "odd" hand shape is because the right hand not only picks the string but has to block/mute the unwanted strings also. there is an efficient way to do it and a non-efficient way to do it. the "high knuckle" form is the classic way players have done it for decades until "pick blocking" became an alternative.
if you look at your palm facing you and find your "life line" - that crease that runs from between your index and middle finger to the side of your palm - that line should be over the string you are picking and thus blocking also. thats the reason for the bent hand with high knuckle. most people put the hand too far back and try to block with the joint between the pinky and palm - and some CAN do this depending on how fat your hand is and the shape of the hand, or if you extend the pinky out vs curl, etc, etc...

ross also makes a great point about "picking from the knuckle" and NOT the finger joints

Deirdre, you noted correctly that the fingers ARE curled in somewhat. Just thought that I'd point out that this is necessary to get the meaty part of your palm's outer edge over the strings so that it can do the blocking on all the strings, including the highest string.

With this in mind, try to keep your hand perpendicular to the strings and move your arm in and out from your body as you move across the strings. This will keep your hand position consistent across all the strings so that you can accomplish the damping in a consistent fashion no matter what strings you are playing at any given moment. That Gary Carter video I referenced shows this well, and has some excellent close ups of his right hand work, although I never got comfortable with my pinky sticking out like his does. Also, his right hand is not exactly perpendicular with the strings due to his right arm being out from his body somewhat. That's not to say that it's "wrong", and his results are unquestionably excellent. He has found what works for him.

This just goes to show you how personal these things are and why you always hear that you need to find what works for you. Your quest to get started without getting into bad habits is wise. Regardless of all the different styles out there, I think you'll be able to distill some good fundamentals that work for you.

I think Ross has given you some invaluable advice, especially about finding a natural hand position, and I really like his comment about moving from the big knuckles. It economizes the hand's movements, which is always a good thing. You'll notice the application of this in Carter's video also.

Here's that video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI56hQOsmos

Nicely put Jerome. You got that post in while I was typing mine and while much of what we said is the same, you explained these principles very well. Is this a great forum or what!

also, forgot to add that the posture also depends on whether you are an "index picker" or "middle finger" picker (that sounds odd, but,,)
Jerry Byrd played lines mainly with his thumb & index finger, as did most of that generation. Buddy Emmons and most of the pedal players are thumb & middle finger dominant pickers. so the knuckle/hand has to be higher for the middle finger to line up correctly.
that simple observation could clarify some questions when looking at various right hand shapes

i bet i watched this video 100x when i was trying to get my right hand blocking working. classic "high knuckle" posture done to perfection
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViY2WXvVXYU

Excellent video Jerome! I'd love to be worthy of one of those hats someday.

Yeah, excellent video! And excellent specific details in the posts of this thread. The only thing I would add is that whatever your playing strategy, it is all about economy of effort.

Jerome’s point about index and 2nd finger picking is something I have never settled on. I favour the index finger, but where ever possible I walk both fingers. I don’t know of any other steel player who does that.

I have a lot of thoughts about this, and have been spending most of my time researching right hand technique and trying to find something a little different which I think would play a little to my strengths. Really, it's too esoteric to talk about here (yet ), but I have really been trying to apply some really important things I learned from a piano book. Also, I recently started delving into harp literature in an effort to isolate some picking techniques. I think it's fascinating stuff.

Anyway, I don't believe there is one way to approach positioning your hand, but we have to be able to adjust to several ways of playing. In order to have a consistent picking technique, though, it is really valuable to work on perfecting simple picking techniques and develop the ability to enunciate phrases. If your hand is not in a comfortable position, though, it will be hard to achieve that level. I like to just loosely put my right hand on its side, tuck my ring and pinky fingers in, and let my 3 fingers go to work as a team, not so much as individual fingers. Finding comfortable pairings is key--I'm favoring thumb/forefinger lately. I do alternate that, though, when playing certain patterns across the strings, such as a pentatonic scale ascending in triplets. It's a great exercise.

Thanks guys, you have all been my teachers these past four months.
I can hardly believe I've already been playing that long, I know it's beans compared to most of you, but for me a milestone. I remember when I tried to learn guitar as a teen I tired of it after a month, and within a year gave up. In comparison I love playing steel guitar even more than when I started it has grown on me so much.

Jerome Hawkes wrote: Jerry Byrd played lines mainly with his thumb & index finger, as did most of that generation. Buddy Emmons and most of the pedal players are thumb & middle finger dominant pickers.

This may seem weird, but after thinking about it, I seem to approach it both ways, depending on the instrument.

When playing a 10-string pedal steel, I usually play lines with the thumb and middle finger. When playing 6-string lap instruments, either acoustic or electric, I will favor the thumb and index finger.

I never really thought about it until after reading this, but both methods seem equally valid to me.

I also favor plastic fingerpicks on acoustic instruments, and metal fingerpicks on electric instruments. I always use the same style plastic thumbpick.

I generally use a 3/4" x 3" bullet bar on my 6-strings, and a 7/8" x 3-3/8" bullet bar on 10-string pedal steel, but lately have been experimenting with tonebars of many different sizes and materials.

I guess my rant above is basically a long-winded way of saying that there are many different approaches. Keep experimenting, Dierdre, and you'll discover what works best for you. If you keep at it long enough, it will eventually sort itself out and become comfortable without overthinking and obsessing over it.

Deirdre,
Your question has pretty much been answered by the guys before me.
But I'll chime in anyway.

The best answer is whatever is comfortable for each individual.
O.K. so how do you find that comfortable position?

The way shown to me by Kathy Barack is this:
With your guitar before you relax your hand and lay it on the strings palm up.
Just let it lay there and relax naturally.
Now turn it over...that is the perfect position for your fingers to be in when you play.

Hope that helps,
Ron

I am a beginner plus and find that with a relaxed picking position, the fifth (baby) finger edge of my palm is arched and no where near close enough to palm block all of the strings. I need to actively straighten my fifth finger as in the Gary Carter video in order to palm block. This takes conscious effort but is becoming easier.

Are relaxed hand players palm blocking or pick blocking or not blocking or...?

Jim