The Steel Guitar Forum

In an effort to overcome the "Blind Spot" at the mid-range of the steel guitar's fretboard, I am preparing to develop a wider fretboard. The proposed fretboard would be extended appreciably, and the frets will be visible at all times, which would eliminate the inability to see the frets at the mid-range of the "neck". The wider fretboard will feature an upward curl at the furthermost edge, which will maximize visual accuracy in placing the bar at the proper location on the fretboard. A mirrored effect has not been ruled out as an addition to this "squeak in the forest" of new ideas.

Bill H.

IMHO, maximizing "visual accuracy" is the very reason some players sound so out-of-tune.

<SMALL>...an upward curl at the furthermost edge</SMALL>

This doesn't help anything. The straight lines on the curved surface will create a refractory effect leaving the player with just as much compensation to do as before.

Lousy idea, Bill.

A better idea for improving intonation might be to have no frets at all. (At least at the beginning of the learning curve.) I'm too chicken to cover my frets completely but I have found that my intonation got much better fast when I shifted my focus from my eyes to my ears.

Bob <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 24 September 2002 at 06:11 AM.]</p></FONT>

IMHO, maximizing "visual accuracy" is the very reason some players sound so out-of-tune.

I have always said that you position the bar with your ears not your hands.

Redesign the instrument so that the player is positioned right at mid point of the the Fretboard.

<SMALL>I have always said that you position the bar with your ears not your hands</SMALL>

I couldn't disagree more. Is this to say "Put the bar somewhere in the vicinity and 'fudge' until it's kind of in tune"?

100% of your focus should be on the fretboard and nothing but the fretboard. Position the bar directly over the fret and perfectly in line with it. Never look at the bar or at your right hand. You can, of course, periodically check out the chicks in the audience.

I'm certain that playing with a blindfold on would have the desired effect and would work out less expensive plus save your guitar in it's "original" condition.......

Big Bad Bob.

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<SMALL>Position the bar directly over the fret and perfectly in line with it. Never look at the bar</SMALL>

That sounds like a good trick, Michael. Is that what you really meant to write? If so, please elaborate!

That's right, Jim. Look THROUGH the bar at the fret below.

Michael is right though we still have to compensate for the parallax.

Roy, I center myself on fret 13 when I sit down to play. Maybe we could make the guitar neck move instead of the bar...

OK, I'm new at steel, so maybe I shouldn't say anything, but that never stopped me before, so here goes.
Anybody ever seen a fiddle with frets? How about a cello, bass, viola, whatever, that must be played by feel for intonation alone?
OF COURSE NOT! I would think that the time spent making this new fretboard and installing it, would be better spent practicing playing in tune. Sure, Barry Bonds could hit more home runs if the bat were 8 feet long, and a foot in diameter, but wouldn't that make for a wacky strike zone.
Somebody asked Josh Graves if he could play dobro with his eyes closed, and he said,"I don't know, I never looked!"<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 24 September 2002 at 10:16 AM.]</p></FONT>

Seems like if you are only using the fret board you are going to have a problem at certain positions due to the various angles that you are looking down from. A perfect alignment with the fret would still be at best, in most positions, a judgement call. IMHO, especially for a new PSG player. Get those ears trained to be in tune. For some this comes naturally while others may have to work at it. If you can't get past this then maybe PSG is not for you.I sure don't want to listen to you if you play out of tune.

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Why not use a laser pen instead of a bar? You could line the red dot up exactly with the fret markers on Bill's upturned fretboard.

I would suggest that a good performance at the steel guitar is dependent on visual acuity, and a better than average "pitch memory", or recall. As for the imagined parallax, that is one of the less significant considerations, and is the lesser challenge in the process of becoming an accomplished player.
For example, try blindfolding a steel guitarist, then place his bar over the 6th fret. Ask the player to proceed by playing a melody that will require a good bit of bar movement. Do not allow him/her to raise the bar off the strings, or strike harmonics. Note if the player has the ability to return to the 6th fret with accurate pitch recall. The ability to do so, will indicate a very positive indication that the memory recall is not a problem for the individual. Still, much of the enjoyment of playing steel guitar is derived from visualizing one's achievements, much like playing sporting games.

The wider fretboard will allow a steel guitarist to maintain an accurate placement of the bar, and reduce the frustration associated with having to resort to guessing.

Bill H.
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 24 September 2002 at 01:04 PM.]</p></FONT>

Wow! Bob Hofnar and I actually do agree once in awhile!

I don't think anyone can argue confidently that, for us, watching what you're doing is more important than listening to what you're doing! We are, after all, primarily trying to make good music...and not performing for visual entertainment.

Let's leave that to the "video" producers.

Try playing slants by looking at the fret board...it don't work.Of course most folks don't play slants anyway

Buddy Van .Steel Guitar is there anything else

When the bar is directly over any fret I think it would be great if it prompted a little red light to come on at the top of the fret in front of the tip of the bar. Same type of indicator that lights up on our chromatic tuners when we tune a string straight up 440. It would be a striking effect don't you think?
Different colors?

Yeah, Roy. As long as the audience couldn't see it too!

The extended vertically mounted fretboard has proven itself to be so special, that to appreciate the concept, all you need to do is fold a piece of paper. Then hold the paper near the edge of your fretboard. Copy the frets on the paper. No need to copy more than 10 or 12 near the center of fretboard. Secure the paper in a position where the tip of the bar points straight at the vertical lines. If this fails to excite you, let me be the first to know. There is no need to look down at the fret board as you for the first time, see clearly the desired fret you are seeking.

Bill H.

David Farlow, you've hit the nail on the head. If you've got to watch every move you make, without using your ears, you have no business playing ANY continuously-variable pitched instrument. I've been fooling with steel for less than a year, and I can play in tune. Maybe only two songs, but they're in tune
And if you can't play in tune, then how are you gonna know your guitar's in tune to begin with? What about singing? Mr. Hankey, have you come up with any devices to help singers stay in tune? Makes me wonder why I bend strings on guitar. I know, I'll put a dial indicator, calibrated to each string gauge and wired to a tuner, to tell me when I have enough deflection for the proper note. But wait, then I couldn't see the fingerboard! Oh, woe is me! Would somebody please tell Doc Watson to stop playing guitar? And Ray Charles-give up the piano.

<SMALL> If this fails to excite you, let me be the first to know.</SMALL>

Fails to excite me? I’m damn near comatose over this one, Bill!

<SMALL>...have you come up with any devices to help singers stay in tune?</SMALL>

I’m thinkin’ cattle prod, here…

Marty, I've worked with singers over the years, where the cattle prod would only make them scream off key.
My position is, and always will be, that you learn to play in tune with your EARS, not your eyes! If you need gimmicks, then play pinball!

For the readers who are more realistic, I'll quote that "the proof is in the pudding". For the first time, this proposed, virtually vertical fretboard extension allows me to reposition the bar accurately, and the angle of my vision is much more natural. The visual aspect of the new concept is impeccable, and this is a large part of the excitement created by the change of looking up to greater degree. I will take the necessary steps to secure a patent on the proposed fretboard, after checking on the costs involved to do so. I noted while experimenting with the prototype, that there is a remarkable reduction of hesitation in taking off like a shot to land squarely on the chosen fret. This reality generated more excitement. The most advantageous angle of the fretboard extension is approaching 90 degrees, perhaps closer to 80 degrees. The best angle will be decided after a few observations have been accomplished.

Bill H.

You could learn to play without looking at the fretboard at all... kind of like the trombone players do it

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