The Steel Guitar Forum

Hello,

I've been asking around about which brands of pedal steel guitars are of top "quality". I've been frustrated with the neutral answers I get. It seems nobody wants to step on any guitar maker's toes? Do I really have to travel 2000 miles and take a month off to seek out and play all the top brands?


Any thoughts from pros who have plenty of experience with high quality guitars? I want a guitar that I can play for years and be happy with.

Sincerely,
B. Gordon

Brett, at this point, ALL the brands are top quality. They know how to make them right. And every manufacturer knows he has to build a fine instrument in order to compete. It's impossible to find a bad new guitar.

But different guitars have different tones and other characteristics. And you would do well to compare them to see not which is the best, but which appeals to you personally. Some people like the sound of a wood neck. Others prefer aluminum. Some like gearless tuners, others prefer traditional geared ones. Likewise the choice of a lacquer or formica finish.

These are subjective issues. There is no right or wrong, no "this feature is better than that." These things are a matter of personal preference, like the choice of color.

You asked if you really have to travel 2000 miles to see all the top brands. I suggest that since you are going to pick an instrument you are going to have to live with for a very long time, that it may well be worth the trip, not to select which brand is best, but to find the guitar that will please you the most in the years to come. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 11 January 2001 at 08:14 AM.]</p></FONT>

Yea, I'd second what Mike says. If you're going to lay out all that bread on a new guitar and you sound fairly inexperienced, going to a convention like the Texas one or St. Louis will provide you with much more knowledge and connections than you can get staying at home. You can also survey the top players and ask their opinions on the various guitars and acccessories plus get a musical kick in the pants that'll last for years.

Thanks for your reply Mike.

My main concern with finding a quality guitar is consistant good intonation. A guitar that stays in tune (at least for a reasonable amount of time). Also, a guitar with pedal ease that doesn't hurt my back after an hour of pressing. The constant retuning thing is a pain on my Sierra Artist D-10

Looks like I'm bound to travel south to PSG land to find out for myself..

Sincerely,
Brett

<SMALL>I've been frustrated with the neutral answers I get. It seems nobody wants to step on any guitar maker's toes?</SMALL>

...figure out which brands you are leaning towards, narrow it down to one or two, read past posts to find out who also likes those brands, and then ask them...

..you won't get a neutral answer, and they'll tell you what you want to hear...

..back in November, you could have taken one weekend day off and driven less than 100 miles to Norwalk, Ct and played a Fessenden or Carter at the PSGA show, that would have taken care of two of the brands for you..go to jams, most people will let you try out their axe....

Brett,

I'm playing in Methune at the White Buffalo on sat the 13th. Its right on the border of NH and Mass. You ae welcome to check out my steel.

Bob

Let me make one small amendment to my previous post. Any professional model guitar will be a fine instrument. The Sierra Artist is a student model. (Although it shouldn't have the kinds of problems you mentioned.)

The TSGA show is coming up. You might want to go and check out the different guitars, and enjoy all the great players. On the same trip you can stop at such stores as Billy Cooper's and Bobbe Seymour's and look at all the different guitars there. You might well find "the one" sitting on a showroom floor.

Also, don't be afraid to look at used guitars. You may well decide that you prefer an older guitar like an MSA or MCI.

Finally, when you buy a gitar, check out the individual guitar, not the brand name. Sometimes different guitars made by the same manufacturer sound and play completely different from each other.

I agree with Mike and most of the posts. They are all good quality nowadays. They all have pluses and minuses and the best thing is to check them out at a big show, such as Scotty's ISGC in St Louis. Just about anyone dealing in steel guitar products is there.

As far as your problems with your back, that may be because you do not have the correct height seat. There are also seats available with backs that are really great.

Most of the "major" tuning problems can be traced back to the strings. Make sure you use a good grade pedal steel guitar strings. Get the guitar in tune with it'self, and there are many ideas and approaches to tuning, and a lot of your tuning problems will disappear. If you are not in tune to start with you will be constantly tuning. I'd suggest starting with the Jeff Newman tuning chart and then you can modify it for your particular guitar if you want to.

Pedal ease is a matter of personal preference, not quality. Some of us prefer stiffer pedal action. I like to rest my foot on the pedals without engaging them.

All pedal steels made today should stay in tune. I think that the Sierra Artist may be more susceptible to temperature changes than other guitars, because of its aluminum body. I had one on loan for a while a played it for several hours in my living room without any tuning problems. But the Artist is not Sierra's top-of-the-line instrument. The quality of the construction and parts used doesn't compare to their Session series.

If you do travel to a show like the ISGC in StLouis, you will notice an awful lot of tuning "goings on" just about everywhere. I have for over 30 yrs, noticed at these shows, a consistent and often frustrating (to watch) effort to tune steels before and during a player's performance.

I have even seen some of the greats, go to a tuning room, spend and hour or more tuning up. Then go immediately on stage and spend 10 or 15 minutes of a scheduled half hour set undoing most of what the previous hour had done.

And considering that I too, tune constantly as long as I play and have seen numerous others do this, on just about every conceivable PSG imaginable, I am not sure you have not just begun to realize the "reality" of the steel guitar world.

The consensus in my mind is simply that, because of the nature of a steel guitar(particularly the PSG), many players become so "in tune" with the slightest change in real (or imagined) tuning of our steels, that we are just simply relegated to a life of "tweaking" dem strangs. More or Less.

The only man that I have ever seen who defies most, if not all, of the above is Jerry Byrd. He spends 10 seconds tuning 6, 7 or 8 strings. Goes through them once. Gets them dead on (to my ears at least). Plays several tunes, in perfect tune, and while talking to the crowd, often changes tunings to a completely different tuning. Walks down the strings one time. And then blows our minds playing a few more songs in perfect tune with that tuning. Only to repeat the above scenario, and so on.

But then there is only one Jerry Byrd

God bless him, and all of you,

carl

Brett I'v owned and played a bunch. But the one i have coming I think i'm gonna like it better than any.If you email me i will tell you what it is. It starts with an E and dont have no M's. Hope you make the right choice and hope i do tooooo. LOL Gary

Please come to the Dallas Show. About anything you could dream of will be there, DON'T RUSH.

Jeff

This should go without saying but I'll say it anyway. Make SURE you have the bar STRAIGHT.
One of my best friends who just happens to be a killer player was complaining that his guitar was noting sharp on the eleventh fret. I asked him to play something, ending on the 11th fret. When he got there, his bar was canted at about 10 degrees. I sat down at the guitar, played the same run and the guitar was as close to perfectly in tune as any steel guitar (As Carl says its a Pedal steel, it's never perfectly in tune in all configurations of the pedals.)

The "intonation problems" on a well-adjusted modern pedal steel fall into three categories:<ol>

[*]Player error - accidentally slanting the bar, applying uneven pressure, etc.

[*]Hysteresis - when a pull that lowers a string comes back sharp, and a pull that raises the same string comes back flat.

[*]Cabinet drop (or raise) - when strings that aren't being pulled detune when other strings are pulled.[/list]

Hysteresis is caused by the string length in the keyhead. It can be corrected by compensator pulls or by keyless head designs, but most players simply live with it. It can be kept at a minimum by keeping the roller nut lubricated.

Cabinet drop has been corrected by counterforce designs on some guitars (most notably the Emmons LeGrande III), but most players simply live with it and tune to accomodate it. Severe cabinet drop could be a sign of an inferior guitar, but most cabinet drop complaints are just picking nits.

At this point in time, no manufacturer is turning out guitars that have serious hysteresis or cabinet drop problems. Brett, I suspect that your guitar is not properly adjusted, or that perhaps you're inadvertantly doing something wrong with your left hand.

Or maybe you're just getting attuned to the microtonal aspects of this amazing instrument. I remember whole years when I thought I didn't sound in tune. My guitar wasn't really the problem, though - I was just learning how to hear well enough to position the bar correctly.

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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 12 January 2001 at 12:38 AM.]</p></FONT>

Brett, if you are a seasoned player you probably already know who makes the good guitars. But if your not (which is why I suspect your asking the question)then I'll make it real simple for you.

BUY A ZUM!

It's that easy! If your just starting out or have been playing just a short time, a guitar of this quality will satisfy you for a long time. If your not satisfied with a guitar like a Zum then I suspect you'll never be satisfied.

A new player has not yet aquired the experience it takes to discern the differences between wood neck vs. aluminum, Formica vs. laquer, keyless vs. geared etc. etc. etc.. As your playing style evolves so will your ability to pick features that support your style. Buy a Zum and practice, practice practice and practice some more. When you become proficient with the instrument you'll have a much better idea of what you want.

I doubt there is a player on this forum who has been playing for a few years who is still playing the instrument they started out with, no matter what the quality of their first guitar. As you get better you will be more knowledgeble as to what features you will desire in a guitar. Dedicated players change guitars from time to time. It's a disease I think. No matter, it's fun.

Buy a ZUM! You won't regret it. (I know I'll catch some flack for this, Oh well)

Jim West

Jim,
No offense, but I think you're doing our friend Brett a serious disservice. I played a ZumSteel for 25 years and it's one of my favorite brands, but implying that all his problems will be solved by purchasing a certain brand is just simply not true. Tuning and playing pedal steel in tune is a daunting task, even with a guitar that tunes properly and returns to pitch after being raised or lowered. All professional model steels that I've seen in the past 10 years or more meet these criteria.

Just my opinion

Brett - I would suggest you get in touch with Doug Beaumier or some of the other players/teachers in your area. There's a limit to the advice you can get from a 'conversation' in writing. You need to listen to as many brands in action as possible and visit IN PERSON with as many players as you can. There are several excellent players in New England and even a mfgr or repair shop or two. Plan a trip to Maine to see Jerry Fessenden's shop or to Virginia to see Buddy Charleton.

LTB<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 12 January 2001 at 08:00 AM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>I doubt there is a player on this forum who has been playing for a few years who is still playing the instrument they started out with, no matter what the quality of their first guitar.</SMALL>

I am still playing my first steel(unless you count the Maverick I borrowed for a week) - an MSA Maple body U-12. It's a great guitar that has served me well for over 20 years. I've been very happy with it all this time, and as the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

MULLEN!!!!!!! Y NADA MAS!!!!!!!!

Larry, Jerry Fessenden is from Maine but he lives and his shop is in Montpelier, Vermont.

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Jim Smith jimsmith94@home.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden Ext. E9/U-12 (soon to be U-13) 8&5 (so far)=-

The characterization of the Sierra Artist as a student model is wrong. I would not hesitate to use an Artist guitar on a gig or recording session. They have a triple raise, triple lower changer and can hold just about any tuning you want to put on them. They are available in S-10 and D-10 configurations. The S-10 I played had 4 pedals and 5 knee levers. This is not an instrument that's easily outgrown!

The big difference between the Artist and the more expensive Session model is 'ruggedness', for lack of a better word. I wouldn't want to do a lot of one-nighters with the Artist. Its parts are not as heavy-duty. I don't think it would hold up well to road abuse. It's a good guitar for a sitdown gig or a recording studio, and it's definitely the equal of some guitars that cost hundreds of dollars more.

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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)

Brett,
Probably,,,,there is not as much wrong with your guitar as you may think. In all likelyhood it needs some adjustments that you are not familiar with nor the words and descriptions we tend to use about these problems and their solving.
Call or email me and we'll talk steel guitars one on one. 281-856-9453 or click on the envelope above to email.
BB

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If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

>>>
Jim,
No offense, but I think you're doing our friend Brett a serious
disservice. I played a ZumSteel for 25 years and it's one of my
favorite brands, but implying that all his problems will be solved by
purchasing a certain brand is just simply not true. Tuning and playing
pedal steel in tune is a daunting task, even with a guitar that tunes
properly and returns to pitch after being raised or lowered. All
professional model steels that I've seen in the past 10 years or more
meet these criteria.

Just my opinion<<<

Larry,
My point was that if he had his stated problems with a Zum (or any other quality professional guitar for that matter)than more than likely his problem lies with himself.

The reason I said get a Zum is because I play one. Bruce Zumsteg builds one of the best guitars available, hands down.

As far as doing him a serious disservice reccomending that he buy a Zum, well I can't figure that one out. He said he was looking for a new guitar. Advising someone to buy a top of the line guitar (if it is within their financial reach) is good advice I think.

The problems he is having with his Sierra are more than likely an inability to understand the workings of the instrument. The Sierra is a fine instrument. But if he is looking for another guitar than I still say a Zum or equivalent.

Jim

Hey Jim,, I couldn't agree with you more. If all goes right, my new Zum will arrive next Thursday, 6 days or 144 hours from now but who's counting. Also, the case is a "Bob Dell" case with wheels. The amount of lugging is definitely going to decrease.

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Bobby Brocius, JCH D-10, 9x7
Real Soon to be a ZumThing Picker, D-10, 8x8

I must go a long with Larry Bell and Jim West. To suggest that Brett would be happy with a Zum steel may be entirely incorrect.

Zum is indeed one fine steel, but it does not follow that a every steel playe would be happy with it.

I can sit down to any steel ever made and prove to you problems with it. And I don't believe a guitar will ever be made that will satisfy every player.

That is why we have Ford versus Chevy lovers. Or Toyotas or Hondas, etc, etc.

Brett, DO, if at all possible go to the ISGC in StLouis or the Dallas show, and check out all the steels. Sit down with them and play them. Go back and repeat those ones that stand out to you.

When you find one there, or at a later time that says to you,

"Hey, let's me and you make music", BUY that sapsucker!!"

And God bless you richly when you do,

carl

The truth of the matter: If you think you're going to find your 'Forever' guitar in one shot, I believe your will find yourself mistaken. Do your homework, talk to some folks, go to a show or two, and then buy the steel that really 'talks to you', even if you can't quantify it or explain it. Get what really does it for you, and then if you want to get another down the road or swap this one out, then go for that, too. This ain't science. Go from the heart/guts.

And good luck whatever you do...