The Steel Guitar Forum

Hi SGF and Al Marcus, in particular:

Do you recall if your 1st generation Gibson Electraharp (these were the guitar that were built between 1939 and the start of World War 2) experienced any problems with "cabinet drop?"

The pedal changer on these guitars was similar to the one used on the Harlin Brothers Multi-Kord. While the Multi-Kord experienced a significant amout of cabinet drop because its wooden body wasn't supported by any metal, I'm not sure about the design of the 1st generation Electraharp, having never seen one in person.

I look forward to your responces and I hope everyone has a nice weekend.



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Regards,
Al Gershen
Grants Pass, Oregon. USA
Fender 1000 (1956),
Fender PS 210 (1971) &
Gibson Electraharp EH-820 (1960)
Al's Photographs and "Photos of the Day" at http://www.alsphotographs.com

Al-You couldn't get any cabinet drop on that model.

One reason, it didn't fold up like the Multi-Kords and later Electra-Harps.

Two it was well supported on three sides by the cabinet all the way to the floor , and having the pedals all on the left end helped too.

And if I remember the top itself was very, very thick hard rock maple. Very solid and heavy...al

My first steel was a Gibson Electraharp, tho' I don't know if it was 1st or 2nd generation, per se. In any event, "cabinet drop" would have been a very fine point to consider on my axe, since the pedal mechanism was so poor in the first place that the "fine tuning" issue of "cabinet drop" would have been laughable.

Perhaps Al or someone else has had better experience with theirs...?

Mine experienced quite a bit of "cabinet drop". It weighed soooo much, that I dropped it many times!
Uff-Da!

Jim-All you guys are not old enough to have seen the ORIGINAL Electra-Harp.

Jim you werent even born when it came out. That was 62 years ago.

They build 7 of them BEFORE 1942 then did Not build that one again.

Later in the 50's they came out with that crappy one that you mentioned. Gibson had me in Kalamzoo to evaluate it, and I said "it stinks" . I wouldnt have one.

So I kept my 1942 for about ten years , then built a 14 string with a Multi-Kord changer that I got from Jay Harlan in Indianapolis.

I didn't have any cabinet drop with my home built either, had a big steel plate bolted to the top from underneath. Played in pretty good tune.I had two staggered 6 string guitar pickups on it .

That's what we had in those days. With all the nice guitars being made today, We got it made now...al

Hi Al Marcus, Jim Cohen and Ed Niehaus:

Thank you for your postings on this matter.

"You couldn't get any cabinet drop on that model.

Al, did the 1st generation Electraharp have a metal sub-chassis under the wooden body? If so, was it similar to the metal sub-chassis on the 2nd and 3rd generation Electraharps?

If the instrument didn't have a metal subchassis, I suspect that it would have exhibited "cabinet drop" by virtue of it being an all wooden body.

For Jim and Ed...and others, here's a breakdown of the Gibson Electraharps, by generations:

1st Generation: 1939 to the start of World War II; only 7 built, per Al Marcus. The pedal changer was very similar to that used in the Harlin Brothers Multi-Kords (it raised and lowered each sting).

2nd Generation: late 1940 to 1967, when Gibson went out of the pedal steel guitar business. Many of these guitars were built during this time period. The pedal changer had to be redesigned after Gibson law a patent lawsuit with the Harlin Brothers. The new pedal changer was an inferior design because to lower strings, you had to lower ALL of them and reraise the strings you didn't want lowered.

3rd generation: 1960 to 1967. This guitar was the only Gibson pedal steel guitar with pedal in the front of the guitar on a pedal board. There were two models: single neck (8 strings, 8 pedals and no knee levers) and double neck (8 strings, 8 pedals and no knww levers). This guitar had a redesigned pedal changer that was similar to the 1st generation guitars. Only about 45 of these guitar were made and sold....and I have one of them.

I look forward to more postings on this subject.

Pray that America has a safe Sept 11 tomorrow.



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Regards,
Al Gershen
Grants Pass, Oregon. USA
Fender 1000 (1956),
Fender PS 210 (1971) &
Gibson Electraharp EH-820 (1960)
Al's Photographs and "Photos of the Day" at http://www.alsphotographs.com

Al-That's about the way it was, as I remember it. That 3rd Generation was a lot better than the 2nd, but they made it for 8 strings, all the pedals worked both necks at the same time, (bad deal) I played one of those in Kalamzoo > Yes they had the pedals right in front like they are now, but the changer was in the opposite end that they are now. The 1st generation took a lot of pressure to push the pedals. But the 3rd had torque tube drive and too a lot less pressure.

Al-When the screws hit the fingers, which were in soft metal, they would loosen up and then you had to retune .
But the Multi-Kord had lock nuts on the screws in hard metal and they did not move .

Fender was coming out with 10 strings, and a better setup and Gibson quit making pedal guitars........al <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 11 September 2002 at 03:42 PM.]</p></FONT>

Al and Al,
Thanks for the education! You're right that my Electraharp would have been one of the 2nd generation ones you describe. (Of course, the fact that I wasn't born when the 1st generation (or even many of the 2nd generation ones) were built, would not have prevented me from buying a used one years later from Scotty!) But it sounds like the 1st generation ones were extremely rare and I'm sure I've never encountered one. Too bad; sounds like they were much better than the one I had!

Hi Al Marcus:

I have a couple of followup questions:

But the 3rd had torque tube drive and too a lot less pressure.

What is a torque tube drive? Sounds like a transmission of a 1960 Corvette!

<I>When the screws hit the fingers, which were in soft metal, they would loosen up and then you had to retune .
But the Multi-Kord had lock nuts on the screws in hard metal and they did not move.</I>

You are implying that the "fingers", which I assume you mean the sharpening and flattening levers, (or are they the levers that the screws screw into?), on the Gibson were made of a soft metal and on the Fender were made of a hardened metal. Is this correct? This almost seems hard (no pun intended) to believe.

Why didn't Gibson put the locking nuts on their guitars? It seems like a very simple fix and they saw it on the Multi-Kords.

I look forward to your additional comments on this interesting (for me, at least) subject.

Regards,
Al Gershen

Al Gershen- I just picked up on this post and see some questions that call for a response.

Al the screws on the original were in the tuning bars, six bars, 6 pedals.

What I mean about soft,(I am not a machinist) had some kind of softer metal to make the screws go in and out and hold. I can't explain it.

I had never seen or heard of a Multi-Kord prior to WWII. So I don't know why Gibson didn't put lock nuts on the Screws.

Even though Multi-Kord had a patent, I don't think they hit the market until after WWII.

It took a special srew driver with a wrench on the outside that moved up and down on the handle.

The Gibson people tald me about the Torque Tube when I came down to Kalamazoo to try it out their new 3rd Generation Electra-Harp.

The front mounted pedals were connected to some kind of Gear on the changer end and pulled the rod down actuating the changer.

It was a lot easier than my old 1st generation. It was a very heavy guitar and the both necks were activated when pushing a pedal.

Silly, they didn't put a neck changer like you have on your Fender PS-210 and they made it for 8 strings. Fender was 10 strings and took over the market.

Jim-I didn't mean anything by my statement to you except that it was a long time ago. Of course you could buy one used like any other vintage guitar. I got your new CD and you are getting to be one of our new Bright Stars.

I agree with you on the 2nd generation Electa-Harp. You might not know this but Ted McCarty pres of Gibson had his salesman bring one of those up to my music store in Northern Michigan and he went out to the club where I played and wanted me to try it out. It took about 20 Minutes to put my setup on it, and I played it the first set.

It was awful, good thing I had my old Electra-Harp in my car trunk. Right after the first set, I packed that away and gave it back to the Representative, and got my old one and finished the night with mine.

The guitar you saw on that old picture in 1955 playing at a jam session, that Al Gershen was so kind to post, WAS my old Electra-Harp but I took the Beautiful Birdseye cabinet off and put it on that metal pipe stand.

That is all history now........al

Al M.,
Did Gibson make a T8 with the changer on the center neck,or am I remembering something that didn't happen?
A friend of mine had a single 8 Harp in the early 50s,sorta got me fired up,along about the time Isaccs did Slowly,Etc,Etc.

Bill

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Bill Ford

I have 3 or 4 Electraharps in my collection and beleive I have #3 of the first model . I bought a new one in 1958 and paid $385 for it. I was drafted 2 weeks later and was stuck with a $15 a month payment while making $39 as a Army Private. I had my Ricky Bakalite shipped to me in Italy and used it on the Army Special Services touring gigs. The 58 was beatufil but was horrible to play. That is one reason I started experminting in building Steels when I came home in 1960.Ed Naylor Steel Guitar Works

I got my Electraharp in the late fifties also, and I do not think that "cabinet drop" had been "invented" yet.
See you all in Dallas I hope.

Bill Stafford

Bill Ford- In answer to your question. Yes they did make one with the pedal operated neck in the middle. You are right...

Bill Stafford - yes, the good old days, eh, we never heard of cabinet drop....al