Using the volume pedal to calm momentary spikes

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 10 Apr 2014 7:47 pm

I'm just starting to get good enough at pedal steel where I can start obsessing about the finer parts of sound. What's on my mind now is how hard it is to use the volume pedal to maintain a uniform string attack when you want strike the strings harder. I swear that's not as dumb as it sounds. Regardless of the initial sound of the attack, a firmly struck string creates a different character of sound than a lightly struck string. The problem is that a firmly stuck string creates an abrupt string attack... like a snap.

I'm feeling really challenged by using the volume pedal to compensate for a more firmly plucked string. It seems like it requires a very fast, very well timed, but very small foot movement that is outside of my abilities right now. I only started to notice it once I'd record the sound coming out of my amp, since the sound coming off the guitar masked the difference for me.

When I play, sometimes I feel that varying the force with which I attack the strings provides expressive depth. I know some players do this more than others. Songs build and release tension in a manipulative way. However, uniform volume is still important.

I need someone to tell me the right way to approach this issue before I go too far in the wrong direction. I've seen a couple threads where people swear that anything to be gained by using compression can be better had by better volume pedal technique. I went through a phase where I thought I liked a compressed sound, but I'm done with it now. At the same time, it seems like it might be physically impossible to use a volume pedal so precisely to calm (and not deaden) the string attack so that it is mostly uniform no matter how hard you strike the strings. I'm using a Hilton pedal and I've configured it to it's least sensitive setting, but still, the movement required to make a firm string attack sound like a normal string attack is so quick and miniscule that when I try it, I swear I can feel the give in my foot between the movement of the bones and the movement of the tissue.

I suppose it's possible that the sound I'm looking for was actually obtained by slight compression instead of expert volume pedal usage. If that's the case, I hope someone on here can tell me so.

Larry Jackson · Post by **Larry Jackson** » 10 Apr 2014 9:19 pm

Hey, Curt

I'll be interested in reading the responses here, too. I've only been playing about a month. I have a volume pedal, but I haven't even hooked it up yet. Still working on basic stuff, grips, pedals, etc.

I have noticed, that players use the pedal not only to govern the volume, but to apply the pedal a split second after string attack so that only a soft 'swell' of sound is heard. That's gonna take some coordination along with the pedals and the levers!

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 10 Apr 2014 9:32 pm

Whether or not it is "better" the use of compression to compensate for a lack of volume pedal technique by its very nature precludes one's ever developing said technique.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 10 Apr 2014 9:43 pm

If I were you........

I'd forget the volume pedal for an indefinite period of time, the time that is absolutely essential for learning how to pick in an even manner.

There are several different methods for using the pedal however, it's not something anyone should be troubled about, particularly, if they're new to the steel guitar.

It will come to you in time............

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 11 Apr 2014 3:59 am

Ray, so you're saying that I shouldn't be varying how hard I strike the strings?

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 11 Apr 2014 6:44 am

Ray can certainly speak for himself, but I don't think that's how he meant "even manner." I think he simply meant to concentrate on picking consistently, in whatever intensity called for by the passage...hard, soft or a combination. Then incorporate the volume pedal. I find the volume pedal very useful to calm clams

or at least minimize their duration.

Depending on the passage you're playing, you should vary how hard you strike the strings, but you should be in control of the intensity of the string strikes.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 11 Apr 2014 6:57 am

BB King doesn't use a volume pedal...if you want certain types of expression, sometimes it comes from NOT 'working' the volume pedal.

I haven't used a compressor, but if, as you say, you like the sound you get with it as an EFFECT (not as a technique crutch) then use it and make it part of what you do.

Steel guitar is not a one-trick pony, so there is no one-way to use it.

Pete Nicholls · Post by **Pete Nicholls** » 11 Apr 2014 7:07 am

Curt, I hope you get a good answer for this one, as I have the same challenge. When you get into feeling the song, or just starting to take a ride, it is humbling to get that "clunk" or momentary spike as you call it. I'm watching this thread with interest.

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 11 Apr 2014 7:43 am

Re picking, the best advice I got was from Dave Grafe,"Pick like you mean it" - it made everything immediately sound better - the instrument needs to have enough attack to get everything to sound right...I still sometimes have to remind myself not to play it like a 6 string, but to pick evenly and use volume pedal to manage sound level...

The volume pedal thing will happen by itself - don't worry about it - your foot will just start doing what your ear wants to hear when you have played enough...it takes a while...

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 11 Apr 2014 7:45 am

Curt Trisko wrote:I'm just starting to get good enough at pedal steel where I can start obsessing about the finer parts of sound. What's on my mind now is how hard it is to use the volume pedal to maintain a uniform string attack when you want strike the strings harder. I swear that's not as dumb as it sounds. Regardless of the initial sound of the attack, a firmly struck string creates a different character of sound than a lightly struck string. The problem is that a firmly stuck string creates an abrupt string attack... like a snap.

I'm feeling really challenged by using the volume pedal to compensate for a more firmly plucked string. It seems like it requires a very fast, very well timed, but very small foot movement that is outside of my abilities right now. I only started to notice it once I'd record the sound coming out of my amp, since the sound coming off the guitar masked the difference for me.

When I play, sometimes I feel that varying the force with which I attack the strings provides expressive depth. I know some players do this more than others. Songs build and release tension in a manipulative way. However, uniform volume is still important.

I need someone to tell me the right way to approach this issue before I go too far in the wrong direction. I've seen a couple threads where people swear that anything to be gained by using compression can be better had by better volume pedal technique. I went through a phase where I thought I liked a compressed sound, but I'm done with it now. At the same time, it seems like it might be physically impossible to use a volume pedal so precisely to calm (and not deaden) the string attack so that it is mostly uniform no matter how hard you strike the strings. I'm using a Hilton pedal and I've configured it to it's least sensitive setting, but still, the movement required to make a firm string attack sound like a normal string attack is so quick and miniscule that when I try it, I swear I can feel the give in my foot between the movement of the bones and the movement of the tissue.

I suppose it's possible that the sound I'm looking for was actually obtained by slight compression instead of expert volume pedal usage. If that's the case, I hope someone on here can tell me so.

You certainly don't need to be an "expert" to use a volume pedal correctly.. Just takes time...

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 11 Apr 2014 8:06 am

Curt, I hope you get a good answer for this one, as I have the same challenge. When you get into feeling the song, or just starting to take a ride, it is humbling to get that "clunk" or momentary spike as you call it. I'm watching this thread with interest.

Pete knows what I'm talking about.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 11 Apr 2014 8:51 am

BB King doesn't use a volume pedal

BB King doesn't use palm OR pick blocking either, you point being?

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 11 Apr 2014 9:09 am

Unplug the volume pedal and practice with the guitar straight into the amp, but keep your foot on the pedal like it's plugged in.

Learn to control attack with your fingers, not your volume pedal.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 11 Apr 2014 9:13 am

Don't allow yourself to drop into the BAD, Bad habit of PUMPING the volume pedal like it was with an early day pipe organ, or the accelerator on a car that has and engine that won't start immediately.

How to do it will come later in your education.

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 11 Apr 2014 9:16 am

I'm not sure if we're all talking about the same thing. Basically, I feel like I can be more expressive with my playing if I make the strings sound off with different intensities for different parts within any given song. However, this results in unacceptable variation in volume for the string attack. I want to use the volume pedal to make the string attack sound uniform, but it's extremely hard or impossible.

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 11 Apr 2014 9:22 am

You can learn to do that with with your fingers.

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 11 Apr 2014 9:26 am

You can learn to do that with with your fingers.

You mean like by striking the strings in an upward manner so that you get a good ring off of them without making them snap back?

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 11 Apr 2014 9:36 am

Curt,

I know what you are talking about.... and like others, I will say that it just comes to you eventually. Do spend some time watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOiizSM ... redirect=1

Just listen and watch Buddy's VP work on the E9 songs. Watch the way he plays with almost no VP on the C6 workouts.
I have been playing for a long time, and I copped a whole bunch of stuff from this video.

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 11 Apr 2014 9:44 am

Curt, I know what you are wanting, and it ain't in the volume pedal. It's in your fingers and seat time.

Mike is right. You can never go wrong watching and listening to Buddy. Only problem is, he makes me want take my guitar out and bury it.

Learn to "use" the volume pedal, not "depend" on it!

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 11 Apr 2014 10:03 am

You want to pick with authority as your default, and have your volume pedal set to where that default picking attack doesn't spike. Add pedal to maintain sustain, add pedal to pick softly when necessary for effect.

I think of the volume pedal more like a limiter than a compressor.....

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 11 Apr 2014 10:09 am

What about when you're picking with extra authority? That's the problem I'm having. The solution could be be to not pick with extra authority ever.

The more I think about this, the more the sound that I'm talking about could be the result of the sympathetic vibration of other strings and the metal parts of the guitar. I want that sound sometimes, but I want the string attack to sound mostly same as normal.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 11 Apr 2014 12:28 pm

Dave Grafe wrote:
BB King doesn't use a volume pedal
BB King doesn't use palm OR pick blocking either, your point being?

Maybe I'm not understanding the point of the thread....on one hand, the OP suggests the use picking dynamics to alter "tone" (a completely legitimate endeavor, IMO..hence the BB King reference). You will find a reference to picking attack as it relates to tone in the opening post. In this vein of thought I was simply pointing out that sometimes you SHOULDN'T control dynamics by working the volume pedal.

On the other hand, words like spike and clunk imply a picking technique issue and certainly there's a camp that believes this thread is about this problem...and the use of volume pedal to solve this??? All the instructional material says if you have picking technique issues and use your volume pedal to erase the sound, then you should be disconnecting your volume pedal and forcing yourself to get the notes right (its in the acclaimed Winnie and Keith book).

On yet another train of thought that hasn't been addressed yet......some guitars handle aggressive picking more gracefully than others....my sho~bud absorbs a significant picking transient with grace and gives it back in sustain...my MSA has a point at which overly aggressive picking causes a spike that seems to overload the pickup momentarily ....consequently I play my sho~bud aggressively (in fact - the guitar seems to draw that out of the player) and I play my MSA with a more finessed and lighter touch and that is what that guitar draws out of my technique...Just saying...I love em both for their differences.

The volume pedal is a lot more 'natural' to use with my sho~bud, no question. I use picking dynamics moreso on my MSA. The Sho~bud is BALLSY...the MSA is sweet and chirpy in its tone...

So if this last train of thought is correct - this clunk or spike is maybe guitar design related...

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 11 Apr 2014 12:51 pm

curt,
i think you're on the right track. keep the volume pedal and forget the compressor. just hearing the difference in nuance of the tone means you're almost there. just do lots of playing while concentrating on the string attack you want to hear/or not. but don't obssess about it. relax you right hand.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Apr 2014 12:52 pm

I suspect you're actually causing most of your problem by trying to control the pick attack with the volume pedal. You may be sensing the volume of the picked note is too loud, and then you're trying to sneak the volume pedal back real fast to compensate, and doing that would only exaggerate the peak of amplitude when the note is picked. Instead, control the "bite" or "snap" of the pick by your picking technique, which should vary depending on what kind of note-shape (envelope) you're trying to achieve. Using just the tip of the pick blade provides more "snap", while using more of the edge (side) of the blade softens the release of the string. Practicing occasionally without using the volume pedal will definitely improve your picking technique!

Lastly, if you watch the pros, the one thing you'll notice among all of them is how little they actually move the volume pedal as they're playing.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 11 Apr 2014 1:37 pm

...and an excellent point it is, Tom

The Steel Guitar Forum

Using the volume pedal to calm momentary spikes

Using the volume pedal to calm momentary spikes

Just an olde timers opinion................

Re: Using the volume pedal to calm momentary spikes

Re: Using the volume pedal to calm momentary spikes

WHAT EVER you do...................