D# lower to C#... Long throw???

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 25 Sep 2002 8:36 am

I've read alot of folks have this change, D# lower to C#, on string 2 on a knee lever.

Does it require a long throw on your axe?

Were you able to rig it some way to eliminate the long throw?

Do you use it on the same lever as E to Eb?... and if so, does it require alot more travel than strings 4 and 8, such that 4 and 8 don't even enguage untill half way through the lever motion?

Is your D# to C# coupled with another change, or by itself?

Any other input on making this change short and quick appreciated.

Thx,
~pete b

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 25 Sep 2002 9:23 am

I have the D# to C# change on the second string along with a half stop at D. In addition to this second string change, I drop the 6th string G# to F# with the same knee lever (LKL). It works for me. It doesn't require a long throw. You can adjust the throw depending on what holes you use on your bellcrank. My LeGrande has 14 hole bellcranks so lots of different combinations.
Erv

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 25 Sep 2002 9:52 am

I lower 2nd stg D# to D(w/1/2 stop) to C#. On the same KL, I lower the 9th std to C# from the 1/2 stop on.
JE:-)>

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 25 Sep 2002 1:31 pm

The standard (as much as a standard exists) is to lower the second string to D and then to C#, and to lower the 9th string to C#.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Sep 2002 1:46 pm

Since I'm never using that change in fast stuff, I don't mind the long throw. In fact, I prefer that to be a "slow" change. On the other hand, I have the D#-D on a different lever, and it's a quick change...I use that one a lot on fast stuff!

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 25 Sep 2002 5:54 pm

Pete- I have that throw on all of my guitars on my E-Eb lever and it is a long throw that requires some tinkering with in order to have all the strings start and stop their movement simultaneously. Also- the knee lever throw is longer with that configuration than without it- except on the Anapeg- I dunno how Noel does it but he is a master~~~~

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 26 Sep 2002 10:33 am

On my guitar, a mid-70s ShoBud Pro II Custom, it would require indeed a long throw... so long that it is physically impossible to install that change since even when I turn the stop screw ALL the way in, it still isn´t sufficient. Someone, I think it was Earnest Bovine, suggested a couple of months ago that the problem might be caused by a lower return spring that has too much tension, thus causing the changer finger to bend sideways. I now have the softest possible springs on there - any less tension and the lower won´t return to pitch properly - but it still doesn´t get there. Even if it did, the throw would be so long that it would just be uncomfortable to use. So I just stick to the D# to D lower (I prefer a firm stop for the D note anyway), do a bar slant now and then to get to C# and there are some combinations that I can´t do with that setup (like, D# to C# and 3rd string B pedal raise G# to A at the same time) but I don´t really care, there´s so much other stuff that I can do.
I think the problem mentioned above is what caused Hal Rugg and Weldon Myrick (don´t know which one came up with it first) to tune their 2nd string to C#.

Regards, Joe H.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 26 Sep 2002 11:15 am

I tune mine to D, and all three drop 1/2 step . . . no problem on either the push-pull or all pull.

Everything on this instrument is a tradeoff.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 26 Sep 2002 1:58 pm

My 2nd string is tuned to C#. RKR moves
C# to D# and and string 9 B-D.
The RKR is the longest throw of all my 6 knees, but is not a problem for me.
I play, except for string 2, basically stock
U-12.

Oh yeah, an 'outside' RKL moves the 2nd string from C# to D. That's all it does.[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 26 September 2002 at 03:06 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Sep 2002 3:07 pm

Joe, try an .016 guage on the 2nd string, and make sure you're using the top hole in the bellcrank (the hole farthest from the cross-shaft) so you get the most travel.

Then your guitar will make that change! [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 26 September 2002 at 04:09 PM.]

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 28 Sep 2002 7:00 am

Hey Donny, out of curiosity I did like you told me today and put on a .016 string, with the rod in the hole furthest from the changer shaft. It still won´t get all the way to C#, but I think I know why. Originally, that change would be on RKR. Now I´m using a somewhat unusual setup, both E string changes are on the right side because I like it better that way. I put the 2nd string change on LKL, which used to be E to F. On both left knee levers, the rod pullers are very close to adjacent cross bars, which means they can´t be moved very far towards the changer (to the left if you´re looking down at the guitar turned over) in their "home" position. Therefore, the turn of the crossbars (the throw of the bellcranks) that belong to the left knee levers is limited. On the right knee levers, this does not exist since the rod pullers are unobstructed and you can turn the bellcranks enough to give them sufficient throw. Hope you understand what I´m trying to explain.
I don´t want to move my changes around since it´s far more important to me to have the E´s on the right knee. But there might be a solution, and that is, put the D# to C# on the same lever that lowers the E´s (RKR). This is a combination that makes a lot of sense AND I could keep the firm stop for the D# to D on the other side. Only, I´ll need another bellcrank with rod puller and I´ll have to figure out a way how to get it. You know anybody who has a bunch of old Sho-Bud parts?

Regards, Joe

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 28 Sep 2002 8:14 am

Well said,LARRY BELL! "Everything on this instrument is a tradeoff." Pedal Steel is the epitomy of the word,"compromise".
W.C.

mickd · Post by **mickd** » 29 Sep 2002 10:08 am

Pete
On my U12, I have D# to C# on LKR, which also lowers the E's. Yes - it does make it a long throw but I've got used to it now and its worth it have a choice of top string when in B6th mode.
Mick