Why do a lot of builders have 7 to 9 months waiting list.?

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 2 Feb 2001 10:14 pm

I saw on another post that some guys were waiting 7 to 9 months to get a new guitar. I don't understand that.

How come that a company like Carter can guarantee a 30 day delivery instead?
Is it because they are more efficient? Better organized? More use of computers?

I am really wondering what the answer is. It is surely not necessarily the difference in quality or construction. They all seem to be pretty darn good guitars, now days.

It can't be because they are selling so many that they can't keep up.
Carter makes and sells more Steel guitars than all of them put together. I am just wondering.......al

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 3 Feb 2001 3:20 am

If I recall correctly,Bigsby used to have something like a 1 or 2 yr. waiting list.
Someone,please, correct me if I'm wrong.

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Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 3 Feb 2001 4:15 am

Some of the builders are bascially "one man companies" and do much of their own parts fabrication and cabinet assembly. There are basically no "off the shelf" parts and nothing is made until a unit is ordered.

I've been to one builder's and saw guitars in various stages of the build and at the time they were quoting a 1 year delivery time because of the number of orders they had.

On the other hand, if you can afford to have a relatively large stock of every part and have cabinets in stock, the staff can focus on assembly and it's not that long a process to custom build a guitar.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 3 Feb 2001 5:38 am

..how long would it take if you had them ship you all the parts in a box with a set of instructions?..

Graham · Post by **Graham** » 3 Feb 2001 6:48 am

I don't know a lot about the various makers of steel guitars with the exception of Ed Fulawka, and that, because I am the webmaster for his website. As Jack mentioned, some are one-man operations and make their own parts. Such is the case with the Fulawka steel. With the exception of keyheads and pedals, Ed makes all of the 12-1300 parts that go into his steels. The end plates alone are made from 6 seperate pieces, aluminum welded and polished to a high gloss finish after the welding process. He also does all his own finish work, makes the cabinets by hand, winds his own pickups, makes his own cases etc. As you can gather, that is a lot of work for one man, hence the waiting period for one of his guitars. He does make up and keep on hand a good supply of smaller parts (bell-cranks, cross rods, roller nuts etc.)but as the guitar is custom made for you (height, your preferences etc) the biggest part of the job begins when the order is placed. From there on, its a waiting game.

Hope this answers some of your questions, Al.

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Matt Farrow · Post by **Matt Farrow** » 3 Feb 2001 6:49 am

You know, instructions are the hardest things to write. Especially for a complicated instrument like a PSG. Even the instructions to assemble a Strat would take about 30 pages, can you IMAGINE the huge book that would come with your steel?

Crazy.

I work in a calibration laboratory, and we do repairs on test and measurement equipment. It takes me an average of 4-6 hours to repair and calibrate a unit, but we have a 7-day turn-around time on calibration only, and a 10-day turn-around time on repairs. So I can see how it might take you months to get a guitar, especially if it was custom-made. It's not like a "Fender" or a "Gibson" where the guitar goes together one way, pretty much, all built by CNC and unskilled labor. A quality PSG is a marvel of engineering! If I wanted it bad enough, I could wait.

Matt Farrow

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Matt Farrow
'74 Emmons GS10 / '72 Kustom Sidewinder JBL
http://surf.to/pharaohamps

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 3 Feb 2001 7:18 am

It is now taking over 3 years to get an Anapeg. But then it is the Rolls-Royce of PSG's and as such if you want one you have to wait.

The Carter folk are exemplary in their business acumen. They have it down pat. Every facet of their efforts speaks of efficiency unparalleled in the PSG business.

Just one example of their keen business sense: When the Atlanta show was just a vision and not even certain it was going to be, I received a call from Ann Fabian of Carter Steel Guitars wanting a booth. But not only did they want a booth, they wanted to make sure there was enough room so players and "wanna be" players could try them out in a relaxed quiet atmosphere. To this day I have NO idea how she found out that a show was in the "thinking" stage. Yes, they have it down pat. They really do. They dot all the eyes and cross all the Tees!

If the PSG ever becomes half as popular as regular guitar, Carter will be the "Microsoft" of that business.

If you are in the market for a PSG, do check them out. Check the others too of course.

Carl

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Feb 2001 8:41 am

If you're not picky about the color, you can usually order a Carter right off the web with NO waiting period. They always seem to have a few completed guitars sitting around ready to ship. Check them out at www.steelguitar.com - the most enviable domain in the industry!

Sage · Post by **Sage** » 3 Feb 2001 8:55 am

As far as I know, Carter doesn't make or stock many of their own parts. Parts are specified for NC machine production and delivered in a "just in time" mode. This is nothing but modern manufacturing engineering. They then assemble the guitars as ordered. They will never run short of parts as long as they have good vendors. It takes a lot less time to put something together from correct, interchangeable parts than it does to make every last little part from scratch. This is a different design philosophy than most other builders. Consequently the instruments are different too, IMHO. Is there a difference between a made from scratch instrument, designed and built by the very hands of the person who designed it- and an instrument of very good design that is assembled carefully from a stock of computer machined parts? Only the buyer can decide. I can tell you right now though which one is less expensive, and which one you have to wait for...[This message was edited by Sage on 03 February 2001 at 09:09 AM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 3 Feb 2001 10:02 am

Sage, your name is quite appropriate!

I agree completely.

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kyle reid · Post by **kyle reid** » 3 Feb 2001 11:04 am

Al M. You say that "Carter makes & sells more steel guitars than all of them put together?" Really? Does anyone else know this to be true?

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 3 Feb 2001 11:35 am

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the fine explanations. I got the answers right here on the Forum.

This is a great place to be for anyone who loves that Pedal Steel Guitar.

Kyle, I just read that about Carter on a post here somewhere, but I don't doubt it.

MSA sold a lot too and Bud was there, so now Carter is doing it.....al

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 3 Feb 2001 11:41 am

Here's a thought -

Some of these folks ain't-a-gonna be making their steels forever. Better get while the getting's good!

I'm doing my part for the cause...ouch...

Graham · Post by **Graham** » 3 Feb 2001 11:46 am

Sage:
For the most part, you are right. In a lot of cases, a formica guitar is quite near in price to a lacquered model, and in some cases, a lot more. As it is less labor intensive to build a formica model over an x number of coats of hand rubbed lacquer, in my mind the formica model is over-priced.
Using Carter and Fulawka as examples, an S-10 Formica Carter with 3 and 5 lists at $2950.00 up here in Canada. Lacquer is $1000.00 more.
Lacquer Fulawka S-10 with 4 and 5 lists at $2995.00. Both come with a case, the Carter with a hardshell, the Fulawka with an Anvil road case.
The Fulawka comes with all pedals and levers highly polished. That is a $260.00 option on the Carter.
I can tell you which one you will wait longer for too, but that is the difference between modern manufacturing and custom building.
The only real thing that counts, IMHO, is that the end user is satisfied with whatever Steel he gets, no matter the make. I think all the builders today make an excellent product and to a lot of people, the time they spent waiting is not regretted once delivery is made.

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Sage · Post by **Sage** » 4 Feb 2001 6:19 pm

Thanks, Graham.
I see that my comments on price were too simplistic. There are many opportunities for great value amidst the hand built instruments. (I know that the the Carter is basically hand built as well, I'm talking parts +). -And Steve- you sure have that right. As the song goes, "who's gonna fill their shoes?".

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 4 Feb 2001 6:31 pm

I waited 6 months for my Fulawka, and might have had to wait longer if I hadn'e arranged to pick it up in St Louis last year.

I got a d-10 9&5 before the price hike with an anvil case. Worth every dime and every minute of the wait.

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 6 Feb 2001 9:31 am

I have to take a somewhat more cynical, businesslike approach to this, I'm afraid.
A company that takes that long to deliver a product makes me wonder how long it would take to repair a defect or replace a broken part if necessary.
I certainly appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into our instruments, but 1-2 man shops with extremely long wait times scare me away.
Especially if they control the (multitude) of unique parts required to keep them working

Bob Brocius · Post by **Bob Brocius** » 6 Feb 2001 12:32 pm

Tony,
Maybe part of the long wait to a new customer is due to the 'care of', 'fixes for', and 'requests from' previous customers. Example: A friend of mine just recently ordered an additional knee lever kit from ZumSteel. He ordered AFTER I ordered my Zum and he got his kit BEFORE I got my new Zum. Neither one of us were unhappy with the way things were handled.

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Bobby Brocius, ZumSteel D-10, 8x8, Blue, BL910s
JCH D-10 9x7 Probably for sale soon

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 9 Feb 2001 8:15 am

Regarding numbers of psg's built -- I know this sounds hard to believe, but I remember reading somewhere that MSA built more psg's than all other psg-builders combined have EVER BUILT. Now that's a lot of psg's. Maybe Reece could correct me if I'm wrong.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 9 Feb 2001 9:44 am

Tom,

I find that very hard to believe.

carl

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 9 Feb 2001 3:01 pm

Carl, far fetched as it might seem, I also heard the same. By the way, did your surprise arrive yet?

John DeBoalt · Post by **John DeBoalt** » 10 Feb 2001 1:23 am

The reason Carter can deliver a guitar in less than 30 days is because they do truly make a quality instrument. The term"Quality" is in fact consistancy in the manufacturing process. Carter has achieved this better than anyone. A psg is in fact a piece of machinery and should not be compared to lets say a violin. An instrument assembled the way Carter does it will last longer, and play better than one assembled by someone attempting to do everything by hand, filing and adjusting this and that to make the thing work. Though you may get lucky and get a great guitar from this guy, the next one may not be quite so good. I just received my new Carter about 3 weeks ago. It arrived in excellent condition in less than 30 days, and on the exact day they said it would arrive. The fit and finish of the instrument is excellent, and the changers are smooth and quiet. I believe that I bought a quality instrument that will give me trouble free service because Carter has in fact modernized the process of psg machining and and fabrication.

Carter D-10, Zum S-10 RJ Deneve Resonator Guitar, Peavey Revoloution 112 transtube

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 10 Feb 2001 4:20 am

A psg is in fact a piece of machinery and should not be compared to lets say a violin.

Hmmm....

I'll bet you have never owned a Franklin. There is something very special about some of the hand made instruments out there. In my opinion they are well worth the wait. When true master builders like Paul Franklin Sr and Jimmy Crawford stop building they will never be replaced or duplicated.

Bob

Graham · Post by **Graham** » 10 Feb 2001 6:29 am

John:
You can add others to B0b's list as well. My current model is an S-10 Fulawka built in 1970. I have no doubt that the new one I have on order AND am patiently waiting for, will be just as good, IF, not better than this one. In 30 years, this guitar has been back to Ed Fulawka once, that was last year to have the Franklin 4th pedal added.

Pretty easy to generalize and make bold statements when you don't really know what you are talking about. Imagine there are a lot of early model Sho-bud and Emmons owners out there that could tell you the same thing.

To me, THAT is QUALITY!!

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