Emmons Guitars through Fender Amps

Brian Herder · Post by **Brian Herder** » 8 Sep 2002 8:41 pm

I know that there are plenty of guys out there using Sho Buds and Fender amps, but how about Emmons players? Are any of you folks still playing through Fenders? What are some classic recordings that feature the Emmons/ Fender tone combination?

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 8 Sep 2002 8:57 pm

"Emmons Guitar Incorporated" by Buddy Emmons, better known as "The Black Album," is a 1968 PP through a Fender Twin, according to legend.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 9 Sep 2002 1:44 am

Yeah but what does Buddy know about tone?

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 9 Sep 2002 2:22 am

saw buddy in long island around 76, he played a rosewood D/10, p/p through a twin with stock speakers, no effects, what else is there to say, timeless tone, sounded great then, more than "acceptable" now

Brian Herder · Post by **Brian Herder** » 9 Sep 2002 6:19 am

Thanks guys..I think this topic has some potential food for thought (I'm curious, anyway) ...Ok then..So, if the "black album" made everyone want a P/P, and that is often held up as "the " tone, how come all the hardcore Emmons guys aren't using Twins?...they sure sound different than a Peavey.

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 9 Sep 2002 6:57 am

I've got an old original '65 Twin Reverb
that I use all the time with my Push/Pulls.
If I need the extra wattage, I can dail in
one of my Webb amps to sound really close
the old Fender tone.

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<a href=http://members.localnet.com/~jsganz/Steelin'.mpg>Push/Pull Video Clip</a>

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 9 Sep 2002 7:08 am

I usually play through a NV-1000. But, on the road with the Derailers, I may get a NV-1000, NV-400, or a Twin. I have grown to really love the tone I get through the Twin, just straight into the amp. No ProFex or anything. Just Fender verb. Awsome tone.

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 9 Sep 2002 9:18 am

I have grown to really love the tone I get through the Twin, just straight into the amp. No ProFex or anything. Just Fender verb. Awsome tone.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 9 Sep 2002 10:16 am

I think my ole buddy Dave and I agree but may come 'at it' from two different angles

I think that Emmons guitars (particularly older ones) sound great through most amps . . .

. . . and Dave seems to love the sound of most guitars through Fender tube amps. (I don't disagree)

As was pointed out early in the thread, the tone benchmark for many, if not most, pedal steel players is the 'Black Album' --- hmmmm, old Emmons guitar through a Twin --- of course they had a piece of outboard equipment that was needed to push it over the top -- BUDDY EMMONS' HANDS.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 9 Sep 2002 11:39 am

I get a really good sound with my '75 P/P into an old Twin with a 15" JBL, and a little delay from a Boss DD5. IMHO, you can't beat those Fender reverbs.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Brian Herder · Post by **Brian Herder** » 9 Sep 2002 12:43 pm

Jay, what did you use to record your video clip?
That tone seems OK..

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 9 Sep 2002 6:55 pm

Larry-I will sure echo your post on amps and guitars.

I will say, that I had a PP Emmons and Fender Twin with 2 JBL D120's in 1972 in Phoenix and that is just about the best tone I ever got.It just got too heavy to carry around.

A little later, I had a Fender Showman head with a 15 inch D 130 JBL cabinet, and it was just about as good. But that cabinet was big.....al

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 9 Sep 2002 10:33 pm

I'm playing a '69 D-10 p/p, a '66 S-10 p/p, and an '84 S-10 p/p thru either a pair of '60s Fender Deluxe Reverbs with JBL D120s OR the main rig is a '69 Twin Reverb with a 15" Black Widow. The Fender amps cant be beat. The EQ, the reverb, the power section, that drive when you push them, just perfect. Even though my three guitars sound different from eachother, all three of them Emmonses just love those Fender amps, it's the best tone I've ever achieved. At one rehearsal space I play thru a '71 Fender Pro Reverb with stock fender speakers and that too sounds fantastic.

Brad Sarno
St. Louis
'66,'69,'84 Emmons p/p

Bruce Bouton · Post by **Bruce Bouton** » 9 Sep 2002 10:36 pm

What does Dave Allen know! I've offered time and time again to take that old Fender off his hands and give him a new amp but he just won't listen.
BB

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Sep 2002 12:00 am

how come all the hardcore Emmons guys aren't using Twins?

'Cause they think "the sound" is in the guitar.

Of course, the fact that it costs a couple hundred dollars to re-tube a Twin every year or so might have something to do with it too!

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 10 Sep 2002 3:00 am

Dave, thanks for not giving me crap when you played my Sho-Bud through the N-1000 I had set up.

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 10 Sep 2002 6:43 am

Brian,
Yep, that's the old Twin in the clip.
The audio was recorded thru the
little mic on the camcorder.

Brian Herder · Post by **Brian Herder** » 10 Sep 2002 3:19 pm

Ok...now the reason I was wondering about this in the first place is, an Emmons seems to have a midrange that is accentuated by the Fender amp, coming off very shrill and blaring...when I have tried it, anyway. I know that others (the greats, and us common folk as well) use/used this combination before with obviously great results. Has anyone else experienced this middy thing? For what it's worth, I play an old Pro ll through a Fender. I started this thread because I was talking to a friend about it..we have been around, and around on his topic for years..he mostly plays Emmons P/P and a Peavey.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Sep 2002 3:46 pm

No (though I'm not saying that either of us is right), I can't classify the Emmons as having a "lot of mids"! Sho~bud...maybe, MSA...definitely. Emmons, to my ears, is crystal highs, less than moderate mid-range, and thin (but tight) bass. Want an Emmons to sound good through an old T/R? Set the bass at 8-10, mids at 2, and treble at 3. NOW you're in the ball park! ('Course, you gotta run the volume up with these settings.) The mid control in the old Fenders (as well as most other amps!) is way overused. If you want a "full sound", you gotta keep the mids down!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 10 Sep 2002 3:55 pm

If you want a "full sound", you gotta keep the mids down!

Exactly.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 11 Sep 2002 1:53 am

I love the sound of my '66 twin and my Emmons. But of course if you had somebody like Buddy or Hal or Tommy, gave them a Maverick and a Heathkit amp, they would all sound great.
I also just re-tubed the entire amp for the sum of $85. O.K., I didn't change the vibrato tube-why bother?

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 11 Sep 2002 2:37 am

jacking up the mids makes a good amp sound cheap...but, doesn't the twin like other tube amps have a natural mid scoop making it necesary to put the mids back in, it adds meat to the plain strings and helps the guitar cut through the band rather than getting lost in the sound, after reading the post I plugged my push/pull into my twin, which I haven't done in a long time, I'm glad I own a twin and glad this post was started

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 11 Sep 2002 2:46 am

thanks for not giving me crap when you played my Sho-Bud through the N-1000 I had set up.

Hey Chris, I am just a Fender addict, not an "amp Nazi".

Besides when someone is gracious enough to let me sit in using all their stuff (including picks!) why should I antagonize 'em? You rig sounded fine, once we got the cords plugged in the right holes

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 11 September 2002 at 03:49 AM.]

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 11 Sep 2002 3:02 am

Mr. Van Allen, you forgot to leave some of your licks on the guitar when you left. I expect you to leave at least one cool lick on there if you play it again!!!! But thanks for the tip on Buckeroo.

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 11 Sep 2002 7:37 am

I really like Fender stuff. Back when I first started playing steel, I had a 70s silver face Fender Twin with two JBLs. I never could get the tone I wanted out my Sho~Bud LDG, but that probably had more to do with my ear at the time and not knowing how to EQ it properly. It was too bright. I ended up trading it toward a new Session 500 which is at least as heavy, but it sounded much, much better!

I don't like having to deal with the tubes, maintenance-wise, but there is no doubt you can get a real "warm" or "lively" sound with tube amps.

I am really impressed with Fender's DSP technology. It makes them sound real close to a tube amp IMHO. I bought a 2001 Fender Princeton 65 to play guitar through and it sounds superb! At 28 lbs and 65 watts, it is quite a performer. It has a 12" Eminence (sp?) speaker.

Anyway, the Princeton 65 does not provide enough quality bottom for steel guitar. I played my Emmons push-pull through it at one of our club meetings and it did a fair job without having enough lows. A formica all-pull would have sounded much too harsh through it. Editorial comment: The fact that this amp almost gets the job done with a push-pull is a tribute to the Emmons push-pull inherent monster tone!

When I was playing out with our local band (no clubs or such) and I was doing double duty of steel and lead, I would play steel through the Nashville 400 and lead through the Fender Princeton because I needed the separate EQ and I could not find a Peavey Vegas 400 for sale. I finally have a Vegas 400 at the church, since I do double duty there.

The Princeton 65 has a line out and I can either run that pre-amp out to the board, have it miked, or run the line out to input #2 on the Nashville 400 if they are short of mikes or slots on the board. Going to the Nashville 400 helps to make up the lack of power the Princeton has for those venues where one needs a lot of volume and cannot go direct.

Again, that Fender DSP technology is very cool. I have played through a Fender Stage 160 (160 watts) at our local music store and it sounds as good as a Fender tube amp to me, at least close enough without the noise and having to deal with tube replacement. Oh yeah, the Fender Stage 160 has more power and is considerably lighter than a Twin!

[This message was edited by Frank Estes on 11 September 2002 at 08:49 AM.]