The Steel Guitar Forum

I'm amazed every year I go to St. Louis and visit the display rooms (Emmons, Derby, Fulawka, Sierra and GFI) to try out, that is, sit down and play, one of their guitars.
It is so difficult to do that!!
First of all, you're lucky to find a steel even connected to an amp. Most of them are just sitting there, not even a seat set up.
One room has them all up on a table....how are you supposed to try one like that?
Another room hardly had any steels in it, just a big, somewhat empty room.
Also, I carry my picks with me, but I don't walk around with a steel bar in my pocket, but the rooms didn't offer to let you use one.
And most of all, it seems their idea of selling you on the merits of their instrument is to constantly feature a pro playing it non-stop all day. How does this make you want to buy their steel? I need to sit down and play it myself!!
If I was a manufacturer paying for one of those rooms, I'd have it filled with steels, all set up with a seat, vol. pedal and an amp, with headphones nearby in case too many tried them out at once. I'd have a bar on each steel and greet people when they come in and invite them to sit down and try one out. But then, that's just me!
The big exception to this complaint is the Carter area. They do feature pro players playing all day, but they have 4 steels set up with volume pedals, amps and bars for anyone to try and they encourage just that.
It seems the other rooms are just set up as jam rooms, not to really promote and sell their products.
?!?!?!?

Tony,

I couldn't agree with you more!!!! Some of these guys should take a marketing 101 class. To go to the trouble and expense to rent the room and bring the guitars there and then offer absolutely no help when someone walks into the room just blows me away!!!.

These guys could sell more guitars when they talk to the customers!!!

mark T.

Tony...

Agreed. Whey they don't bolt a $30.00 CD player and a Pandora to a board with a set of earphones and let people try the guitars seems to me like a lost opportunity.

With several thousand steel fans in one area, I'd be seriously thinking about giving away a set of strings or finger picks or whatever if you fill out our questionaire. Then develop the prospect list off of the information on the questionaire.

I'd also think about signs that said DAY SETUP - TRY ME and EMMONS SETUP - TRY ME.

Life is short...throw some paint on the wall!

I've retracted the few words that I wrote . It's my birthday and I want to be civil the whole day and it appears I may have misunderstood the MSA booth folks. It was a fine guitar for sure. So be it.

Marty , have a ball with this one !

I had an MSA D12 once( man was it heavy) but it sure sounded great .

tp<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 05 September 2002 at 07:03 PM.]</p></FONT>

Wasn't at the convention, but from reading this and other topics it seems like the biggest missed opportunity was for MSA.

I read in another topic that the reason Maurice Anderson didn't play the new MSA Millenium at the convention was that no 12-string version had been built yet. WHAT? Considering all the publicity surrounding MSA over the past year and the fact that they were introducing a revolutionary new guitar, the best thing for them would have been to build a 12-string FIRST and let Maurice demonstrate its superiority first hand! (Assuming it is superior, of course...)

And I don't get the "professional players would want to have time to work with their own setups on the new D-10 MSA before playing it in public" reasoning (not a direct quote). I don't believe that every guitar out there is SO UNIQUE that a professional player couldn't sit down at (almost) any one and be able to play SOMETHING beautiful!

So, after all the publicity, etc., why hide the MSA's in some remote area of the hotel? Why not get them out front and SHOW THEM OFF!?

(I'm not intending to be negative. It just seemed odd to me...)

Hey Tony....see I remember your name!
Yes, that's exactly right about Carter and that's why two years ago I bought one....just because they afforded me the opportunity to sit down and actually play one.

hey Tony, yes the Carter booth was for sure interactive. great players all around that booth for sure.
tp<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 05 September 2002 at 07:01 PM.]</p></FONT>

Mark H......Had you attended the convention and visited both the MSA booth and our hospitality suite the way many others did, I don't believe you would have made some of the statements you made concerning "missed opportunities".

The other topic on this forum which you refer too concerning the reason why an MSA single neck was not available for me to play, is totally accurate.

The expense of both the double and the single neck cabinet molds is very considerable, we therefore made the business decision to make double necks first because the percentage of double neck players is more than that of single neck players. Our business decision was made months before the convention, and considering the end result of the convention, we certainly made the right decision.

I know of no prominent player who would be relaxed and willing to sit down behind any pedal steel for a few minutes, then walk on stage in front of thousands of steel players while on internet radio going around the world to 500,000 people, and play a guitar for the first time.

They realize every guitar feels a little different because of pedal pressure, sound, knee lever pressure, distance traveled by each pedal and knee lever, string guage, pedal setup, fast or slow action and etc. etc.

Could they play something which most would enjoy hearing.....certainly they could, but chances are they would not be at all satisfied with what they played, nor would they play even close to their true potential.

The great players must be satisfied with with the entire playing aspect before they commit to playing in front of an audience, and a guitar they have only played for a few minutes would not provide them the comfort level they must have for creativity and spontaneity.

The MSA was not "hidden" in a remote part of the hotel. We displayed guitars in the main playing room in a standard size booth and we also had a guitar in a large suite along with an amp and sound tracks, so anyone who wished could play and hear the guitar for as long as they wished.

Mark,

With all due respect, there is no way I would dare step on a stage such as Scotty's without the guitar and setup that has become part of my playing. I would imagine that it is the same for the big time players. Sure, there are guys like Johnny Cox that can play just about any setup out there, but I doubt that even he would want to play anything but his own setup - when players are doing their best to present their best.

As great a musician as Maurice Anderson is, if he tripped over something on a guitar that wasn't his setup - there would be people in the audience attributing it to Maurice or the guitar, neither of which would be accurate.

A more public showcasing of the new MSA would have been great, but it just didn't work out that way - or may have never been their intention.

Respectfully,

David Spires

Sorry Mr. Anderson, you beat me to it...
It was great to see you and the MSA in St. Louis. I want to commend you and your team on taking steel guitar design to another level.

Sincerely,

David Spires

I was in the Emmons Guitar room and Ron had picks and bar there. You just had to ask to use them. Picks and bars can inadvertently walk off fairly easily and he kept them behind the table.

There was a steel on the stage along with an Evans amp. It was there for folks to try the guitars. A few times I played along with the band in the Derby room next door. Even Buddy stopped by to try one of them.

Ron said that he brought all the finished guitars he had. Hence being so empty.

------------------
My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

Tony Prior......With little investigation you will find the booth size MSA occupied at the convention is the standard size. More importantly, when equated to the final outcome relative to our objective, it surpassed our expectations, which in itself totally invalidates your comment and conclusion that we are "not in business to sell".

In addition, everyone knows playing in the main room where we displayed four guitars was prohibited for obvious reasons, which is why we also had a large suite where the guitar could be played, heard and examined.

The fact that you or anyone else did not get to hear and play a Millennium is not the fault of MSA.

We would have been pleased for you to have played the Millennium and to have gotten your informed opinion as to its qualities.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Reece Anderson on 03 September 2002 at 02:31 PM.]</p></FONT>

In the interest of continuity:

My bonny lies over the ocean,
blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera,
'til her daddy taks the T-bird awayayay!<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Marty Pollard on 06 September 2002 at 06:22 AM.]</p></FONT>

Reece, I was told in the booth that an invitiation needed to be extended and they would only allow maybe 5 to 7 folks in the room at any one time and I would have to check back for more details. It was never mentioned that there was a guitar available to play, only that you would be doing demo's. I was told that you would be playing the guitars. Now this was early Friday afternoon and maybe the format changed, but I was suprised by that approach. Like I stated, I thought the guitar mechanics looked very fine, well crafted , but I did not have the chance and was not going to keep coming back to check on more details about hearing it in a room or to get an invitiation. Maybe I misunderstood the whole concept and for that I apologize. Like many I was hoping to see and hear you play one as well. That would have been one of the highlights of the convention. I would still stand by my comment that this is a Steel Guitar show with a whole bunch of potential Steel Guitar buyers just hanging out and walking around, in many instances the guitars in several rooms or booths were not easily accessable. Some dealers made it a point of having easy access and some didn't. I guess thats the point I am making. And of course I will retract the part about not being there to sell..that is the whole point and you were there, so egg on my face.
with respect
tp
PS, Marty have a ball with this one dude !<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 03 September 2002 at 05:10 PM.]</p></FONT>

I went to St.Louis last week for the purpose of buying my first NEW pedal steel guitar since I purchased my brand new 1972 Emmons. I've purchased over a dozen guitars, amps, this past year alone (a sizeable dollar amount!) so I do believe that I'm more than an ignorant, unemployed, tire kicker.
A nice big empty room with a lone guitar sitting off to one side with no chair to sit on or amp to play thro, is not a selling/buying environment, in my opinion.
Nor is a booth with three or more pickers playing their hearts out a situation in which I'd want to push my way into, while asking dumb questions. Nor, is a swinging room full of recording artists the type of situation in which I would feel comfortable asking "basic questions"........
I've found guitar manufacturers, quite like expensive airplane distributors, all to often project the image that they don't really need ME/or possibly YOU! They have the product and if you don't know it's the best, then you really shouldn't be asking about it or the price they're asking for it.
Some car wash facilities have signs posted throughout their facilities promoting virtually every step of their car washing process for the benefit of car owners. Signs showing it will not damage the finish of a Porsche while enhancing the appearance of a dirty, older model car.
Large car dealerships have "runners" that will intercept you and bring you along with conversation to someone who does have the techy answers you're seeking.
I specifically visited the Emmons room on more than one occasion. Tho' occupied, the folks at the table appeared to be more engrossed in the book they were reading than ME. The other was such an expert, his whole tone and approach was....in essance, why do you want to know that and besides, I'm really a very busy person!
I too, think some of these folks should eagerly seek out some basic sales techniques.
I came with BIG BUCKS! I left with BIG BUCKS....but no new pedal steel guitar.
If any dealer there, truly believes that their mere presence is sufficient to motivate a prospective buyer to part with several thousand dollars, I think they're living in a dream world.
Just because you know, like and boast about your keen personal relationship with brand "X" guitar company......it does not impress me enough to buy that product.
Not whining or complaining. I mistakenly perceived this show to be a selling/buying opportunity and really looked forward to it.
My picks and bar were in hand. My desire to purchase was ever present. Cash was in the bank!
Only ONE PERSON extended an open invitation for me to play his product and that was the gentleman with the guitar fret board that was mounted atop what appeared to be a model railroad trestle. Aside from that, no other offers, extended hand or friendly smile. Gadd! What a disappointment.
Emmons people.......you missed your chance! It reminds me of a visit I made to a guitar store in Nashville in 1972. It was across the street from the the Ernest Tubb Record Store. Downstairs they had guitars and banjos. Upstairs they had a hundred different pedal steels. After an hour and a half of being ignored, I left.
My letter some weeks later generated a response that included an invitation to drop in again the next time I was in Nashville........ As it is, I've had no occasion to be passing thro' that town since 1972.
I'm not a beginner.....but I'll be darned if I'm gonna arm wrestle a manufacturer or distributor in order to purchase one of their products. You don't want to talk to me about MY NEEDS; how it will enhance my "sound"; how it will make my playing easier and more professional....then I don't want to stand around anymore so as to stare at your empty room/booth or disinterested representative.
GREAT POST! Hit the nail squarely on the head! David Weaver....great suggestions as well as several others. A shy, timid buyer does not respond well either to intimidation
OR being ignored.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 03 September 2002 at 05:07 PM.]</p></FONT>

I visited the MSA booth at least 4 times.
I was shown material samples and the impressive workmanship of the undercarriage.

The MSAs I saw had SOLD tags on them.

I was not aware there was any chance to hear or play one. I didn't ask.
I didn't know the oppertunity existed. No one offered.

The Carter Booth was setup up to "try-em".

Some rooms had so much smoke I avoided them.

For what it's worth, my post did not mention MSA as being "guilty" of not being accessible....the booths have their own limitations, which are somewhat understandable.
The ROOMS are another matter.....that is the point I was trying to make.....a WHOLE ROOM with plenty of space for amps, steels and seats, but they weren't even close to being used that way.
Like Ray said, you want to feel like you can ask questions and TRY the steels, not just gawk at the pros playing along to band-in-a-box tracks.
10 years ago, it was a big deal to purchase a new steel....you'd pretty much have to own it forever, since it wasn't too easy to resell it.
Now, with the Forum and EBay, it's not unheard of to try out a steel and just buy it, with the knowledge you can easily resell it if it loses its appeal.
This means more people are in the market to buy and if the sellers don't take advantage of that, it's their loss!

Tony Prior, Joey Ace,

MSA was situated in the main show room and for obvious reasons it was impossible to have amps in there for those who wanted to play the Millennium. For those dealers and manufacturers situated outside the main show room, amps were allowed. As a result, we set up a suite adjacent to our hotel rooms. The suite was manned by Reece. It wasn't Reece's intention to perform there. His intention was to facilitate playing by others and to answer any questions they had.

Tony, early on Friday we were affixing stickers to badges with the thought that later when we opened the suite we could easily identify those who wanted to play the Millennium and ask Reece any questions. The response was so overwhelming that we later added a "sign up" sheet and took groups to the suite every half hour or so at the convenience of the visitors. We did restrict the group size per session so that those who went could have a reasonable time to assess the Millennium. The only qualification for going to the suite was to indicate an interest in playing the guitar. If we didn't make that clear to every person who entered the booth, and it appears that we didn't, that was our mistake and not your misunderstanding.

Joey, we apologize to you also for not making it clear that you were very welcome to play the guitar in the suite.

All in all we did host many visitors having varying degrees of talent and interest and were pleased to introduce all of them to the carbon fiber Millennium.

Again, to Tony and Joey and to any others affected, for any lack of clarity on our part, we apologize.

Dave<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Dave Horner on 03 September 2002 at 07:01 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Dave Horner on 03 September 2002 at 07:37 PM.]</p></FONT>

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Reece Anderson on 03 September 2002 at 07:53 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Reece Anderson on 06 September 2002 at 05:22 AM.]</p></FONT>

Wow, wish I knew about the MSA suite. I too visited the small booth several times, no one told me about being able to try one somewhere else. I did however play on a Carter for about 20 min. and in the Emmons room I asked Ron Jr. if I could move the Black D-10 III to the stage to try, he said sure. I also played it for about 20 min. Two very fine guitars, would be a very tough call for me to decide.

Dick Meis and I had no problem getting down to0 the MSA room-Reece demonstrated and then let Dick play as long as he wanted. That's more than most of the builders in the main hall do-none of the others have a room to go to.

The whole thing is a little tough-especially if you're like me and not very good-at least compared to the folks who hang in the rooms. It's intimidating, and all these killer players are standing around waiting to hear your licks while you test this thing out, and out comes these squeaks and squawks. I don't know what the answer is-Guys like Ed Fulawka and Del Mullen are constantly sold out, and have no samples to bring-they're all sold. Eddie actually bought an axe back from someone so he'd at least have ONE there for folks to play.

Whatever the MSA folks did, they did it right, pretty much. First off, they had several guitars-if all they had was a prototype, there would have been talk. And next, they pretty much sold out what they brought-so SOMEONE is paying 6 Grand for those babies-and right off the floor too....

JB

------------------
Fulawka D-10 9&5
Mullen Royal Precision D-10 8 & 5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

I was at the MSA booth too. Sorry I missed you Reece. I was greeted by a young guy that seemed to know what he was talking about and was very polite and business oriented. I was never told there was a room to play these guitars though. I thought clearly the MSA was the best looking guitar I'd seen to date of any of them out there and it appeared to be of superior quality. I met David Spires and played a Carter for a little bit. Good to meet you David. I'd be interested to know who sold the most guitars at the convention. As far as a kick the tires atmosphere, I'd have to say that Carter had it all over everyone out there.

Boy! This is getting funny! And I'm not even in it! Now everybody is mad at the manufacturers because they won't act like dealers. Doesn't anyone in the steel guitar industry know how it's supposed to work? Does anyone know how other industrys work? If a manufacturer has dealers, he doesn't owe the public what a dealer owes the public. In most industries, a manufacturer doesn't sell direct to the public. A "custom cottage industry" is what we have, this means that the manufacturers can do what ever they want, unlike Gibson, Fender, Peavey, etc. Believe me though, the steel guitars will be sold.
If the builders sell direct, all the profit goes into their pockets, they don't have to offer any "perks" or deals or anything else. It should be a dealers job to set up a display area, furnish earphones,amps, picks,and provide all answers to any questions about the guitar a player could ask. The factorys should only display to promote their product at functions like the NAMM show,IML shows etc.
What am I trying to say? THIS! :
The steel guitar industry should do what works for every other manufacturer in the music business, Manufactures build, and dealers sell, 'till this happens, all the problems you guys are talking about will continue to exist. This industry needs to grow and get in step with the rest of the world. untill then, we'll have problems. Anyone take "marketing 101" in school?
Know who my biggest competitors are? The factories I buy the steel guitars from! (with certian exceptions)
Somehow, this industry (using the term loosly) needs to get into the 21st century.
We would all stand to gain if it would, in many ways.

Bobbe

I am reading on this thread where a president of a major steel guitar company is arguing and defending himself and his company against statements from people HE shouldn't even have to communicate with. Does he have no staff? No secretary? I wonder if I said something about how I felt about the weight of a Peavey Session 500,the president "Hartley Peavey" would come on the forum and argue with me? Man, let me tell you, we really have a little "industry" here.

Dave Horner, are you still on salery or is this a spot job?


(Just kidding Dave)