The Steel Guitar Forum

The flatting mechanism was separate from the sharping mech. --- therefore it ALWAYS returned to zero no matter [ no "bounce" ever ] --- listen to "clips" at uftonsteel.com

Some follow up input in a second bump post and a url would be nice for us cautious folk who are hesitent browsers.

If you build a " one string " test guitar " [ a piece of 2 by 4 wood , with the ability to b and # just 1/2 a tone ] --- you will be able to prove it for yourself --- it took me a couple of years to build it --- all eng. drawings and the guitar itself resides with Vaughn Passmore [ a hsga.org member ].

I click links because MalwareAntiBytes has never let me down and I have vigorous backups.

Bear with me, Ian - we're talking perception here.

So all I see at the link is sound clips of an apparently non-pedal guitar. The small sample I took, it was all single-line. Yes, it's possible to do that in perfect temperament no matter what temperament you choose.

Nicely played, by the way.

The text you posted seems to lead us to thinking of pedal guitars. We're led to think "I solved cabinet drop" or "never have temperament problems again because of the guitar's mechanism." Eh, that one's a stretch and a half - temperament is just one of those things we live with; it's "baked into the cake." Google "wolf interval".

Granted, I'm reading stuff into this because you're being ...coy?.

At this writing, that seems unsupported.

Help me find what I am missing. Or produce a prototype that does what you say and demonstrate/pursue it in that manner. I am sure that if you "solve the tuning problem", you'll get all manner of support from the assembled here. Patent it, make stuff that works better. I doubt you'll get rich, but it might be worthwhile for other reasons.

This is not a new idea, as there have been other guitars made with the raising and lowering mechanisms on opposite ends of the guitar. A design that separates the mechanisms does not, to my knowledge, eliminate hysteresis, cabinet drop, or the problems of tempered and just-intonated tunings. If just one thing caused the tuning problems in pedal steels, the problem would have likely been solved long ago.

While I agree the OP was a bit lacking in detail, I think he's referring to just raising and lowering a single string, and is claiming that his invention somehow prevents raises and lowers from returning to an incorrect pitch.

I, too, would like to see more information, diagrams, or video clips, to substantiate the claim.

Les , I will reply to you first , which may answer other comments . The clips #2 ,4 ,10 and 13 were all done on the pedal steel I built from scratch --- the other tracks on the CD #3 ,7 ,14 ,15 ,and 17 were done on the same guitar [ I am not trying to sell anyone anything here -- just sharing something I have learned in a lifetime of music and engineering ].

The idea was given to me by Al Briscoe some 30 years ago --- I built a 1 string test piece -- proved it worked , and proceeded to build a 10 string pedal guitar [ 4 knee,s , 6 pedals , 3 left -- 3 right , I do not use a volume pedal, which gave me the ability to use 2 legs and 2 knee,s all at the same time . The tuning was fixed , E6th ,9th .] I ended up using only 7 strings .The only manufactured part of the guitar was the foot pedals and rods . the bridge I designed was individually adjustable ,with a guage that allowed me to tune the octaves and harmonics at the 12th fret perfectly --- therefore the guitar would play full 10 string chords up to the last fret --- it employs a 26 inch scale --- the body is 4 inches deep by 6 inches wide , 3 pieces of ash , dowelled , glued , of course it weighed a ton --- but it worked --- never deviated from zero on a meter --- regardless of wether you flatted or sharped individually or together -- but the tuning was fixed -- could not be changed .

Thats enough for now --- I will ask Vaughn to photograph the guitar --- send me an email --- I will forward them to whomever is interested . He also has the " drawings " and spare parts --- I,m 73 now -- he,s interested and just a young fella .

PS other than what i listed [ recordings ] --- I used 2 lap steels , and a Carter 10 string pedal guitar , but the majority was done on the creation .

PPS the purpose of building the guitar was that i needed to know that when I played 2 ,3 ,4 ,or 5 etc. notes at once I could be confidant that it was " there " --- eliminating the need for tempered tuning . tho I believe that steel guitar is primarily a melody instument , cheers.

Ian, I'd point out that "tempered tunings" are less about cabinet drop than the desire for every chord to sound true in JI. Which means that you have to flat thirds (relative to ET) and sharp 5s. Even if you have no cabinet drop, most people will want to "sweeten" their tunings, because ET doesn't sound as good.

(As a formatting note, I'd point out that the way you presented the link doesn't LOOK like a link: all three of the browsers I use have a very slight contrast between the black and the blue, and don't underline links. Since you chose not to either include the www OR say "click here", it didn't look like a link. It just looked like you said "ufton.com". I miss the days when browsers underlined all links so you would know they were)

Lane , what I am saying is that you only have to tune each string to " zero " [ no compensating - providing you get the octave harmonic and the 12th fret identical ] --- I will be providing pics. shortly .

I applaud anyone who attempts to make things better with a new idea...

I'm not sure I completely understand the project...but if it was to remove cabinet drop, I'm sure the 4x6 inch plank described has something to do with the accuracy of the pitches.

Tom ,
Cabinet drop was a consideration -- I was determined to be able to play a perfectly " in tune " open 10 string chord , with the same accuracy up to and including the last fret . It made no difference wether you flatted any string then sharped it , or vice/versa --- always returned to a perfect zero , no bounce , it does exactly the same thing when you employed the flat and sharp together .

I have pics --- tried to post them here --- cannot -- if someone would like to tell me how ? in detail .

They are JPG --- but I cannot enter any info on the " upload picture " tab .

Sometimes it takes a few minutes or more, while the data transfer process takes place before you will see the code appear...I always wonder if it is going to work. Hit the buttons, and go make a coffee.

Ian, thanks much for your additional explanations.

If nothing else, get a (free) photobucket account and post inks.

They are JPG --- but I cannot enter any info on the " upload picture " tab .

Ian, probably the image size is too large. Try reducing them and they should be good to go.

45.5kb [ 320by240 ] ?

You click the Upload Picture icon, then a dialog box comes up from which you browse to your desired picture, select it and it puts it up.
If that's still a problem, you could email it to me (e9c6zum at AOL) and i can put 'em up.

Thnx Lane , will try that --- always willing to try --- if not I will emaial you the 5 pics.

I had issues posting them directly, so I used the Bucket. Here's 1 view