The Steel Guitar Forum

I know this has been posted previously but I can't find it and need some help. Can I get some insight as to 1. how this change works physically (which KL is best to go C# to D, does it break strings, can I stick it on a KL that already has a change)?
2. What other strings and changes is it used with and should I have another change on that same KL? 3. Is there a particular lick or song where I can hear it? 4. Do I need it on the 10th string? 5. Do the guys who have it, use it much and would it be worth ditching a change that I already have?
I only have one KL going each way on my right leg, is it workable to have more on your volume pedal leg? Thanks for any info.

Some guys pull the .036" middle B string on a universal up to C# and D.

But let's assume you are talking about the high B string on E9 tuning, probably .017". I like to pull that up to D. I don't break strings, but the problem is that the C# note is out of tune on many brands of steel guitar.

If you approach it from above, i.e. lowering from D to C#, the pitch can be much higher than if you raise from B to C#.

Only one of my steels (Franklin) is in tune close enough to use this change on a knee lever. I use LKV, and also pull low E (string #12 on extended E9) down to D with the up lever.

On the Zum the pitch difference is "only" about 7 cents. On the Sho-Bud as "improved" by Duane Marrs, it is 23 cents. On the GFI is is also about 20 cents. On those guitars I put the B -> D change on a spare floor pedal, and save the knee levers for pulls that they can make in tune.

As usual, Ernest is right on target. I'm even tempted to say "Ernest Bovine is out-
standing in his field." But seriously, I have found that most steels(not just a few)
suffer from this anomalie. The problem is inherent in the changer mechanism design and is technically not a flaw. I own a Zum and
a Dekley. Both of them handle it pretty
well, but not perfectly. I use the lever a LOT because I threw away my D string. Also I
have found that if you are playing with the pedal down( which raises your B to C#)then engage the B to D lever, then release the lever with the pedal still down, it doesn't return worth a flip! But if you then pump the pedal quickly,one time, everything returns to normal. This is weird and not really a solution, but it can sure help in a bind. I also sometimes use a slight bar slant
to correct the pitch difference, untill I can pump the pedal in the normal course of playing; again, not really a solution, but it helps! I wish it was simply a matter of
lubricating the changer, but it's not.
W.C.

Thanks Earnest & Wayne. However you've raised as many questions as you've answered. Earnest when you say approach it from above, I assume you have some kind of a feel stop on the lever?? Although if it's an up lever, probably not. So are you saying what Wayne is saying that when you go from that D to C# engaging the first pedal, the ensuing C# is out of tune? I was thinking that I might simply want to be in closed position and then wack that KL quickly for a nice hammer on lick. Will this return out of tune on a Zum? How about being in open position and hitting the KL to D for the flat 7th and returning to B, is that B now out of tune?
Wayne, I know what you mean about quickly hitting the pedals to get back in tune, I've had steels that I had to do that for the 4th string if I wanted a perfect E after using the down change.
How else do you use this change? Thanks, Joe

Joe--my experience with the low B on my Carter U-12 is as they describe. Raise B>C# with pedal, no prob. Flick the lever to D, no prob. Release lever back to C#, it stays sharp. But to answer one question, the lever alone, from B>D, returns in tune. String breakage would not have been an issue. However, I had this on the same lever as a much used unrelated change on another string. This was too much and the .036 died several premature deaths. I decided I wasn't using this B>D change enough and I had the D elsewhere so I ditched it.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jon Light on 23 August 2002 at 04:07 PM.]</p></FONT>

Joe, I'm in a hurry, have to go to work, but
basically it goes like this: I threw away the
9th string,moved #10 up to the 9th string position, re-rodded, replaced #10 w/a G#(which is pulled to A along with strings 3&6)
Incidentally, some folks like to put a low E
in #10 position, instead. Then I use B to D
change for everything I would normally use
string #9 for,because the D note is still right where it always was,if you press the lever. Is that as clear as mud? Sorry,gotta
go now.
W.C.

<SMALL>Earnest when you say approach it from above, I assume you have some kind of a feel stop on the lever?? </SMALL>

No, I mean releasing the lever that raises the 5th string to D while, holding down the pedal that raises it to C#.

We have had many long discussions on this issue in the Pedal Steel section. Here's a link to one of the longer ones: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/001797.html <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jim Smith on 24 August 2002 at 01:32 PM.]</p></FONT>

Thanks guys for all the info. Wayne, that's a pretty clever idea if it works and if you were able to retrain your right hand to get those grips. It must have been a mindf**k for a while.
Jim, I checked that post and it seemed to be more about the E's down change unless I missed it. I'm talking more about a minor third pull and the resulting problems. If anyone has any more thoughts, I'd love to hear them. Thanks, Joe

Yes, the other post was about a double lowering problem, but the shaft flex that causes it is the same whether you're raising or lowering.

I play a Mullen U-12 (E9/B6) and have a lever that raises the 9th string from B to D. I have read many posts about raising the string from B to C# with the pedal, then raising it from C# to D with a lever and then releasing the lever, only to find the C# now a bit sharp. I don't have this problem on my Mullen. After releasing the lever the C# is right on the money. I guess I'm fortunate.

By the way, I use a .036 GHS Dynamite Alloy (Boomers) in that slot.

------------------
Lee, from South Texas

I'll line up behind Lee on this topic. I play a 1983 Zum U-12. I use a .036 GHS nickel. I've never noticed this problem and just ran through the process using my tuner to be exact. B to C# to D and back to C# comes back on pitch. Zum guitar
Dennis