Built in Confusion

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 25 Jul 2000 12:19 pm

Quite often on this forum, readers have become justifiably confused with the use of the letters D, E, F, G, etc levers.

There is a reason for this confusion. I will explain what happened:

Prior to any knee levers, all we had was the A, B and C pedals. Along with pedals 4-7 in the early days in the evolution of our beloved PSG. Remember for a long time there was only 7 pedals. Pedal 8 came along later.

Probably the first use of a knee lever lowered the 2nd string to a D and the 8th string to an Eb. So now we had A thru D. No confusion existed. Everyone could know exactly what the pedals and the one lone knee lever did.

But then some things happpened at about the same time.

Some players wanted to lower the 4th string AND the 8th string to an Eb and then Buddy Emmons recorded "Those Healing Hands of Time" where he lowered the 2nd string to a C# and drove us all crazy with that opening lick.

Now the confusion started to set in. What do you call this new knee lever that lowered 4 AND 8 a half a tone?

"E" right?

Wrong!!!!!!

Some players removed the D# to D change and replaced it with lowering of the 4th and 8th strings from E to Eb. So THEY still called it the D lever!!

From that day to now, the confusion is built in. And prevails all over. Nowadays they can do anything and sometimes do!!

Probably MOST players call it this way:

1. D lever lowers 2nd string. (maybe the 9th string also).

2. E lever lowers 4 and 8 a half a tone.

3. F lever raises 4 and 8 a half a tone.

4. G lever raises 1 and 7 a half a tone. (note: many have sacrificed the 7th string change to lower the 6th string from a G# to an F# on this lever. AND some are now raising the 1st string from and F# to a G# on this lever).

5. The H lever (called the X lever by some), lowers the 5th and 10th strings from a B to a Bb.

Hope this makes it a little more unerstandable.

God bless you all,

carl

jerry wallace · Post by **jerry wallace** » 25 Jul 2000 12:31 pm

Hi Carl,I just printed up my copy of this posting.Thanks again for your knowledge and also for sharing it with us..

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Jerry Wallace-Zum: D-10,8+8, Zum: D-10,8+5, Franklin: D-10,8+9 ,Nashville 1000,Session 2000,Tubefex,ProfexII, ARTESIA, NEW MEXICO

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 25 Jul 2000 3:01 pm

I think that we should all consider this to be the standard, exactly as Carl has described it. If you must use letter names for the knee levers, use these letter names.

I think that 'X' is used much more than 'H' for the lever that lowers the B strings. We can probably thank Jeff Newman for that one.

Carl, what do you suggest for the 4th pedal? Everyone seems to be calling it the PF pedal...

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Averybob.gif" width=64 height=81>Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
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John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 25 Jul 2000 3:19 pm

Jeff Newman calls the E's to Eb the "D" Lever
and the Eb(D#) to D the "E" Lever.

I would suggest that this is the "standard" since Jeff's Tab is probably more widely used by more players than any one elses.

Either way, I think what's most important is having the function on your steel.

John Fabian[This message was edited by John Fabian on 25 July 2000 at 04:56 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Jul 2000 3:35 pm

Good post, Carl! It IS confusing for some people. Once, a steeler told me that "the A pedal is the one that raises the G#'s to A." I had to admit, it sounded logical. Wrong...but logical!

Thanks!

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 25 Jul 2000 3:57 pm

Donny, that must have been me. For a long time I thought of the "A" pedal as raising the G#'s to A and the "B" as the pedal that is connected to the "B" strings. You have to admit it's logical, but then there isn't any logical way to identify the pedals and knee levers. Seems most people that sell instructional material and tab have their own method.

Some of my knee levers are different than what Carl suggests so it would be confusing to me if I saw the "G" lever, without an explanation of what it was doing.

e.g. my RKL lever raises the 1st string a full tone, raises the 2nd string a half tone, lowers the 6th string a full tone and half tone with a split (and lowers the 3rd string a half tone on the C6th neck). My RKR lowers the 2nd string a full tone with a feel stop for the 1/2 tone lower, raises the 7th string a half tone, lowers the 9th string a half tone and lowers the 2nd string on the C6th neck a half tone.

I've also seen the 5 C6th pedals with different designations.

Although Jeff Newman seems to have set somewhat of a standard, it's still a wide open issue.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 25 Jul 2000 7:22 pm

See what I mean folks. Read John's post and then go back and read where some called the lowering of the E's the D lever and others called the 2nd string lower the D lever.

This is where the confusion came in. And it was split about 60/40 with most calling it the way I listed it I believe.

But John makes a good point. What Jeff does, the PSG world believes. Be it right or wrong. He is the PSG's guru instructor. His gift of instructing is his forte'. He is also one of the finest players around.

But those of us that are not alumni of Jeffran College do not call it that way.

One of the things that many have tried to do is to associate what the lever does musically with the alphabet because it kinda fit. It was never the case though. It was always a coincidence. Purely and simply a coincidence.

We had A, B and C. The first lever was named
the D lever. NOT because of what it did. It was simply the next letter in the alphabet. If one started with their lone knee lever lowering the 2nd string, in most cases that is the D lever to them always.

If on the other hand their first knee lever lowered 4 and 8, then that became their D lever. I rather imagine that is what happened in Jeff's case although I do not know this to be a fact.

Now as to b0b's question about the 4th pedal vis a vis Paul Franklin. Haven't given it any thought. But I will go with the "PF" pedal for the sake of anyhing else.

He deserves to have a pedal named after him. He will no doubt become the world's most recorded steel guitarist if he is not already. And one of the greatest players who ever lived.

God bless him, Jeff and all of you,

carl

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 25 Jul 2000 7:37 pm

Carl,
I think that calling it the PF pedal will confuse it with the whole tone raise on the first string. Why not just call it pedal 4?? It's been referred to that way so many, many times that I know exactly what it means. So the floor pedals are A, B, C, and 4. Quirky, but makes perfect sense to me. .. Jeff

Gary Steele · Post by **Gary Steele** » 25 Jul 2000 9:24 pm

What about F4 since it is Franklin and most put it on the 4TH. Just a thought.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 26 Jul 2000 5:19 am

To Jeff and Gary,

Thanks for your posts. Here are my comments.

To call it P4 would not be correct in many cases now. Just a whole bunch of players are moving it to Pedal 1 which used to be the A pedal. Then moving A, B and C one pedal over respectively.

The PF lever that raises the 1st string a whole tone is 99% of the time a knee lever. So I see no problem with calling his other change the PF "pedal".

Thanks again for the thoughts.

God bless you,

carl

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 26 Jul 2000 6:35 am

Carl,
Even though the assumption is that you start lettering and counting the floors from the left going right, a lot of players use the Jimmy Day C,B,A pedal arrangement, which is backwards lettering. It doesn't change the meaning of the pedals. Similarly, if someone puts pedal 4 at the beginning of the rack, it doesn't change the meaning. Pedal 4 is a name only, it doesn't mean it has to be located as a 4th pedal, or even on the floor for that matter! Also, pedals have never been named for the inventors before and it would almost be a slap in the face to some of our heros if we did this. I know that I'd feel pretty bad if I was the inventor of the 'A' and 'B' pedals and saw someone credited with a pedal with about 1/1000 of the significance of my invention. Everyone currently calls it pedal 4. IMHO, we should keep that name. .. Jeff

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 26 Jul 2000 6:42 am

We already have designations for the 3 pedal E9th arrangement, either the "Day" or "Emmons" setup. Why not call the particular changes, that Paul Franklin has come up with the "PF" Pedal or the "Franklin" pedal.

One thing I've noticed throughout this discussion, no ones said anything about desginations for the C6th pedals/knee levers.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 26 Jul 2000 10:01 am

Jack,
Calling it the "Emmons" or "Day" setup refers to the order of the pedals on the floor, which is not the same as giving credit to the inventor of a particular pedal pull. No one is calling the A pedal the BE pedal or whatever. As recently as the late seventies, BE came up with the 6th string whole tone drop, from G# to F#, which is like the father to the pedal 4 pulls, right? I mean, how many pedals and knees should we name after BE anyway?!! Plenty, I think. Giving credit to a particular inventor is an insult to the previous inventors, IMO. I'm not saying the other inventors would feel this, but they would have a right to. .. Jeff

Dave Horch · Post by **Dave Horch** » 26 Jul 2000 10:31 am

Carl, I'm sure you're correct about the most common references to letter names/pedals.

However, as I've said before on this forum, I use the standard Emmons set up, as shown at http://www.buddyemmons.com/info.htm . It's as close to a "standard" as you're going to find, IMO. I think Carl once noted that about 60% of all guitars uses these pedal/lever locations. Note the naming of the knee levers in this setup. Just as we read left-to-right, these levers are named D,E,F,G left-to-right on the guitar. Thus, my "D" lever is LKL and it raises the E's. This is the way I've been taught, and how my teacher tabs things for me, so I guess I'll just stick with it.

Thanks for the history lesson, though. Now I wonder how Buddy came up with his lever naming idea?

Regards, -Dave

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 26 Jul 2000 2:48 pm

For tab, I think it's better to use flats and sharps than pedal/lever names. It's a lot less ambiguous if a note on the 7th string says 8# instead of 8G, in my opinion.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 26 Jul 2000 3:08 pm

I can see right now, with just this limited discussion, why there isn't a standard naming convention.

Typical of Pedal Steels, nothing is absolute - tuning the guitar, pedal setup, knee lever setup, variations on the C6th tuning, universal tunings, etc. etc.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 27 Jul 2000 4:14 am

b0b,

I could not agree more. I think it is the best way of all to do it. Using this method takes care of all the various set-ups.

It permits each player, regardless of his set-up to choose that pedal or knee lever to execute that change without regard to where they are located.

I do not know why it has not caught on more.

Jack Stoner,

All one has to do is take a gander at the "Off-topic" forum and see why there just 'aint" evah gonna be a standard on our beloved PSG!!

God richly bless you two wonderful people,

carl

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 27 Jul 2000 3:52 pm

Carl;
You said:

The PF lever that raises the 1st string a whole tone is 99% of the time a knee lever.

While I agree that it's most times put on a knee lever, I don't know why they call it the "PF lever". Buddy had it on his guitar in the mid-seventies. I think the first recording of it was Buddy on Darrell McCall's "Dreams of a Dreamer".

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 27 Jul 2000 5:12 pm

True Ernie, and Buddy Cage has/had both the F#-G# and D#-E on his last pedal since at least the late 70's!

Louie Hallford · Post by **Louie Hallford** » 27 Jul 2000 5:36 pm

I think what most people refer to as the PF pedal is 4th pedal lowering 5,6,and 10 a whole step ,not the first string raise although he does use that a lot.

At least thats what I thought it was from most of the postings I have seen.

Louie Hallford · Post by **Louie Hallford** » 27 Jul 2000 6:15 pm

I have found the Standard!!!!

For the 4 and 8 string drop:

Herby Wallace calls it .......L1
Newman........................D
Emmons........................F
Jernigan......................FK(EbK,GK,DK)
Fred Layman...................D
Scotty........................D
Ron Elliot....................E
Winnie Winston................L
Ozark Steel Assn. tab.........L
Joe Wright a unique numbering system

Oh well ,I thought I had it there for a minute.

My guess is that Jeff Newman accounts for over half the Tab in circulation.

If I had to decide on one that makes musical sense I would have to vote on Jernigan's tab although I am much more used to Newmans than any other.

My opinion is opposite than the one expressed above.My guess would be that 65 to 75 % of Tab has D as the 4 and 8 string lower. I base that mostly on the amount of Newman tab that is out there. At least half of the Tab in my opinion,with Wallace a distant second.[This message was edited by louie hallford on 27 July 2000 at 07:18 PM.][This message was edited by louie hallford on 27 July 2000 at 07:20 PM.][This message was edited by louie hallford on 27 July 2000 at 07:22 PM.]

Don Benoit · Post by **Don Benoit** » 5 Aug 2002 9:04 am

Carl
I'm with you on naming the pedals and levers. I don't agree with Jeff Newman on naming the 4th and 8th strings lower, the D lever. This is confusing and he should correct an old habit that he learned from way back. It is more logical the call the 4th and 8th string lower the E lever and in addition to call the second lower, the D lever.

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[This message was edited by Don Benoit on 05 August 2002 at 10:05 AM.]

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 5 Aug 2002 9:27 am

Don, You really had to dust this one off!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 5 Aug 2002 9:41 am

I use #'s and b's when I write tab, and in lessons I refer to the "E-raise lever," the "E-lower lever," the "F#-raise lever," and the "Eb-lower lever."

This not only removes any ambiguity, but it teaches the student what the freakin' lever actually does, increasing musical awareness.

Incidentally, according to the late Ron Lashley, Buddy originally had the Eb-lower change on pedal one, and the "A" through "C" pedals on pedals two-four. So when both one and two pedals were depressed and then released simultaneously, the contrapuntal tonal change occurred with a foot movement only. I haven't confirmed this with Buddy, but a letter from Lashley written in 1964 so states.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 5 Aug 2002 10:04 am

Carl, glad to see you back

As far as I´m concerned, I never use any specific terms for the levers just for that reason (confusion)... I always call them "E to Eb lever" or "E to F lever" etc. It´s a bit longer, but at least everybody understands right away what I´m talking about. (Everybody who plays pedal steel, of course...!)
The "P4" thing seems to get a bit confusing. My pedal 4 works the C6 neck. I don´t think you could ever consider it a standard since it´s related to a specific playing style that some use and some don´t. I´m in the latter category. So I suggest to stick with the term "Franklin pedal" for that one.

Regards, Joe H.