Are we going about this all wrong?

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

What's all of this talk about grips and licks and other stuff like that? Doesn't it take more time to write out tab than get on the guitar and attempt to play the melody? Even if done so on just a single string? I just wonder if we're unwittingly boxing the student into a different thinking process than he/she might be using in more advanced playing?

Would it be wrong to have a student pick out a song with the "E" string only then show how to ad a harmony note with that? Then insert pedals/levers?

When I learned how to play decades ago, there was no such phraseology used. We were taught how to play dinky little nursery rhyme thingies and how to keep the bar from dropping into the round hole on the acoustic guitar and then how to properly shake it to get it out. We never imagined all the problems that todays' students seem to be concerned about.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Hi Ray, Hey it would be great if you could post some instructional videos sharing your thoughts on this stuff.
You should seriously think about it.
Pete

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

i agree with your line of thinking Ray - i think the first error a new student to the steel can do is go buy a loaded 3x5 guitar - its just too much to tackle for a beginning mind and you naturally want to start using all those cool levers. i can't understand so many saying you can't play anything on a 3x1 student model....
i believe jeff newman realized this thru teaching hundreds of beginners and thus developed his Up from the Top series - basically fold up all the knee levers and learn what the A & B pedals do before you move on.
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Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I agree entirely. The pedal steel is far too confusing an instrument to dive straight into, and most players play grips without realising they're doing it, because it's the natural thing to do when you're trying to play the melody and harmonise on other strings.

There was a lot of good music played on steel before knee levers were invented, before the extra two re-entrant strings were added, before Buddy combined the A and B pedals, and even before anything was added to a plain non-pedal steel. Nothing is absolutely necessary except a few strings and a pickup.

Clyde Mattocks · From: Kinston, North Carolina, USA

The difference in the times dictate different methods of learning. I learned in about the same period as Ray. Back then there was precious little instruction material and no videos or tabs. There was no talk of grips, pick blocking,etc. You just noodled with the thing till you got it to sound like you wanted it to or maybe there was someone in your area that you could watch occasionally. Now there are all these tools and I see youngsters advancing at a greater pace than we did. That having been said, even now,for some it is intimidating to throw so much technical advice at someone just struggling to get an acceptable sound out of their first steel.
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Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

When the community started referring to the steel guitar as "THE pedal steel guitar"..... I feel they shot themselves in the foot.

STEEL GUITAR is steel guitar. There is so much to learn and enjoy about it.

A pedal steel guitar came long much, much later and was little more than a modified version of the basic steel guitar. It offered more options in playing and chord structures than ever before possible. It was NOT the beginning of steel guitar.

If a student could be taught to start their learning at the beginning of their quest and not light years down the road, in the middle of this quagmire, I think their learning process would be much easier. less confusing and thus, more exciting and fun.

By necessity they'd be learning the BASICs. How to pick and handle the bar and understand their tuning would be essential. Only after that, has been mastered will the student really be prepared to undertake the overwhelming challenges of the pedal steel guitar.

Too many instructional sources, sometimes conflicting and confusing.......are not what the serious student needs. In the olden days, one would latch on to the style of Johnny Sibert, Don Davis, Jerry Byrd, Roy wiggins and a few others and by doing so, they grew to understand the differing styles and sounds related thereto.

Ray Gehringer · From: New York, USA

As a newcomer to Pedal Steel I can't add much to the conversation except to say that this is a very good thread and food for thought in my undertaking of Steel. Thank you.

Richard Smelker · From: Winters.Texas, USA

As a newcomer (started steel last March) I got some good advice from my older brother. I started on a Maverick - 3 pedals, 1 knee. My brother has played steel in a number of bands so he sat down with me, showed me a couple turnarounds and then his advise was
1. work on the pedals and which strings to use until you know what they do.
2. pick some melodies from songs you already do and learn them on the steel.
3. work on harmonies and remember you always find the melody notes in the chord that you play. Only then should you start looking at what the knee levers will do.

I followed his advice and ended up buying a Sho-Bud Professional in June. At that time I knew my chord positions up the E9 neck, what the pedal combinations do the change the chord, and I took Larry Tolivers begining steel school. Now I have figured out what the knee levers do, where I can use a combination of knees and pedals in different positions up and down the neck and only get frustrated about once a day!

I find I can learn by reading tabs but it takes forever to get it down. For me , I find that if I play along with a song, learn the chords and then tackle the melody I can save some time.

Just my two cents Very Happy

_________________
Richard Smelker
assorted 6 & 12 string guitars, a Pedalmaster D10 8+5 to play on, a Roland Cube 80Xl, a Peavey 130, Digitech digital Delay, distortion pedal, Melotron pedal, Keyboards and a MOYO pedal.
A new DAW system that I'm using to create a Christian music CD of original songs. Ordained Minister, Riding for the Brand of Jesus Christ.

Skeeter Stultz · From: LOMITA, California, USA

If you are starting with a PSG, then get a copy of Ray Price's original recording of "City Lights". Two pedals, no knees. Learn to play it over and over. To me that recording is the basis for playing pedals. Also learn what note is on any given string based on a straight E chord. For example 8th fret third string is an E and etc. Learn the notes in the major chords, then minors etc. My 2 cents.
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Daniel Policarpo · From: Kansas City

One thing I think is a lot different about today's novice steel players, aside from having about as many material and electronic distractions as your brain can fathom, is that many are coming from other instruments which they are relatively proficient at playing, primarily Spanish guitar. Speaking from my experience, I went from six string Telecaster to trying my hand at lap steel, but that wasn't the sound I wanted. I wanted to get those steel sounds I heard on my George Jones records. I thought getting proficient at lap would help me with pedal steel, and maybe it did, but I tired quickly since I was just trying to imitate the sounds of the pedals and didn't become proficient at playing anything with a slide. I put it down for a couple years until I could afford a pedal steel.

I learned how to use a 3 pedal 4 lever set up pretty quickly. It is challenging, but not that difficult if you put the time in. I find that I am progressing much faster under the tutelage of William Litaker,and I will recommend that students learn directly from a seasoned player, as well as available video and books. If players aren't learning what notes they are playing, or putting together how notes and chords and melody all work together, then they are missing a big piece of the puzzle, especially if they are just memorizing tabs.

Tabs are great if they are used as a guide, but nothing beats developing your ear and really listening to a recording, while also taking the time to understand how music is put together and able to be mapped on the fret-board is undoubtedly the door that leads to the real excitement. Even if it is simple cowboy chords, which is what I like. Simple and twangy is fine for me, but it's nice to be able to play some soul music if I so choose, or Somewhere over the Rainbow.

I think learning the simplest melodies, nursery rhymes, tv themes, etc and whatever, is another great key to many doors. Lloyd Green and others recommend learning how to play something in three different positions. Man, is that a good tip! Melodies that are already ingrained in our head provide a very quick route to associating what we hear, or think we hear, to the fret-board and the pedals and knees. Lloyd Green's Day for Decision is a great record to play along to, or at least work the melodies. Those are jammed in our brains from a young age and we don't have to play the full chords, or work the inventive and advanced styling that Lloyd lays out, but those melodies are great and are accessible to a beginner. Same with gospel music. Learning one and two string arrangements is a great way to start and I don't think that has changed very much, just because most people can't play beyond that at first, anyway. Sure us beginners want to learn all the nuances of Blue Jade, or Last Date, but when you can make the Theme to Green Acres really sing on the steel, you know your getting somewhere!

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Ray, I learned in much the same way, by just "noodling around" trying to play melody lines. Later, I learned about chords in the same manner. I'd hear a chord or progression in a song, and then I'd try to find it on my 6-string lap steel. Sometimes I could, and sometimes I couldn't, so I began to experiment with different tunings. I didn't have the luxury of knowing what the tunings were. To me, they were just different chords that I made by turning the tuners. Oh Well

(The only books I had were a couple by Nick Manoloff, high-bass "A" tuning.) Soon, I took some lessons from a local Hawaiian fellow, and he taught me the ins and outs of the C6th. There were no scales or exercises. He started by writing out music, lead sheets, and I'd try to play the melodies while he accompanied on his straight guitar. When I had trouble, he's pick up his old Ricky, and show me where the notes were. "I still remember the chanting..."One and two and "A", three C#, four and one and two F#". And so it went, for about 6 months. Once I got familiar with the guitar and tuning, I stopped the lessons, and redoubled my practicing songs.

Now, I'm not saying this is the best way to learn, or even a good way, but it's the way I did it. I know that some players want to know the ins and out of music theory, they want to know all the scales and all the chords, but I was perfectly content to just to be able to play. Looking back, I guess you could say I approached playing the same way that the vast majority of singers approached singing - no scales, no exercises, just "do it". Hear the song, and try to sing it (or in my case, try to play it). Sure, it would be great if every steeler could sit down with a piano arrangement or lead sheet and just start playing. And, I think we need more players who can do that, a lot more, but it just wasn't what I wanted to do.

Christopher Woitach · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Pedal steel has always intrigued me, but up until 4 1/2 years ago I had only played a little resonator, and bottle neck style 6 string

When opportunity arose to purchase a pedal steel, almost on a whim I did - a 12 string MSA. Sitting down at it, I realized that although I could pick out simple melodies, as has been suggested in this thread, that wasn't even close to what I wanted out of the instrument. I'm a jazz guitarist by profession, and wanted the big, beautiful chords and slinky single lines I had heard from listening to Emmons, et al.

I joined the Forum, and through this incredible group I met several very friendly musicans who helped steer me to Uni, and Reece Anderson. Reece helped me figure out how I should get my steel set up, and the wonderful Lynn Stafford did the complex work - very very well, I might add.

I quickly realized that this was even more complex than I had thought, and I needed an instructor. I also did a LOT of work, using my knowledge of music theory, to discover how it worked, and definitely made some progress, but still - it was clear that the techniques and thinking involved needed some direction.

I called Reece, and after some discussion, arranged to fly to Dallas and spend a couple days with him. Yes, it was expensive, and I'm a pro musician and music teacher, so I'm not wealthy, but music is the most important thing in my life, and I was determined to learn the pedal steel. The time I spent with him was so valuable, that it would've been a bargain at 1000 times the price. The help he gave me, and great friendship that developed, was priceless.

The point of this long winded post (please forgive me), is that Reece's method was holistic, including technique, chordal concepts, single line playing, pedal steel based theory, and as Reece would say, "We gotta get your mind right, Christopher".... The use of pedals was included from the very beginning.

While I appreciate the ideas in this thread, and mean no disrespect to the much more experienced players here,Reece Anderson's holistic worked very well for me. While I have many years of playing to go before I am even remotely a good steel player, Reece's approach, and hours and hours of practicing, has got me to where I can play jazz tunes and at least be able to keep up, as well as read standard notation on the steel, albeit slowly
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I profoundly agree with those who say "get help from another player". I feel too many people want to sit at home and learn this thing on their own, using prerecorded lessons, youtube, and books. Those will only take you so far, and despite how good a learner you might think you are, you really need the one-on-one interaction with other players. Feedback is a key part of any learning endeavor. Very Happy

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

I do not believe there is a wrong way to learn. I do not believe in tab as instructionmaterial, but it shure does help to share positions and pickingorder on the instrument. Learning by heart, repeating over and over helps your muscle memory for runs and licks. Making music is learning about theory and transfer that to the steelguitar. Listening to musicians, talking with them, sharing ideas and finding out yourself what to play.I remember someone saying: What the horns are in soulmusic, is the steel in country. Having that in mind and approaching new songs that way, helped me. (Thanks James Brown, you took me to the bridge Smile

)
Try to play Hammond-like parts, or find out stringparts in other forms of music helps you to develop an musical mind. That raises your level. And this forum!!
JJ

Gil Berry · From: Westminster, CA, USA

I don't know about this... I first learned on a 6-string MOTS Oahu guitar tuned E7. Then later E6 and C6. Yeah, you could get some nice two-note harmonies without pedals but slants (especially reverse slants) were a lot to learn. Playing a melody with two or three note harmony is not easy on a non-pedal guitar. When I got my first pedal steel I found playing the melody with harmony a heck of a lot easier than it had been on a non-pedal guitar. I'm a reasonably accomplished player on my loaded uni, but I know I couldn't do half the stuff I like to do on a non-pedal. I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but my middle name isn't "Cashdollar". I need those knees and pedals to sound half way professional.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

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