Volume Pedal Technique Discussion

Post by **Joey Ace** » 28 Jul 2002 4:51 am

I'd like to hear some tips on proper use of the Volume Pedal. Especially on slow ballads.

Anybody have exersizes or practice tips?.

I try to set my full volume at about half-pedal, and give it more pedal as needed to keep the volume consistant.

What works for you?[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 28 July 2002 at 05:53 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Jul 2002 5:07 am

A lot of players overuse their volume pedal, "pumping", it's sometimes called. Most of the time, the pedal is just there to sustain the sound---to slow down it's natural decay. On fast stuff, it becomes almost superfluous.

Tips? Don't "pump" it (don't start with it all the way off), and have your amp volume up high enough that it allows you to sustain a note or chord for a long time. Setting your amp volume too low robs your pedal of its full capability to enhance your sound.

Don Benoit · Post by **Don Benoit** » 28 Jul 2002 6:23 am

I first move the pedal betwen one half to two thirds of it's travel then adjust the level of the amp to the loudness that I want.
When playing slow tunes, I strive to keep the volume level constant and this takes a lot of practice and I think it comes with experience. Small (and I mean small) changes in the attack and decay of the notes played also puts expression into the music where it is needed as I see it. I suggest watching the big boys on how they do it and comparing the results. Of course on fast songs, I don't think the pedal needs to be moved except at the end of a riff.

I often wondered if it would be usefull to practice slow tunes with a VU meter (sound level meter) connected on the amplifier and try to keep the needle on the meter steady. Has anyone ever tried this?

By the way experienced teachers will tell you to not use a pedal when starting out on the steel.

A good friend of mine, Len Ryder noticed that I was moving the pedal slightly on every note that I played. I watched myself on video after and noticed that I was also making other jestures that were unnecessary. I think a camcorder is a great tool to use to play back and criticize yourself on your tone and habits.

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[This message was edited by Don Benoit on 28 July 2002 at 07:25 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 28 Jul 2002 6:49 am

Don is speaking words of great wisdom here.
If you can't play steel guitar without a volume pedal, you owe it to yourself to learn to sound good plugging straight into your amp. No reverb, no delay, no volume pedal. You hear it's all in the hands -- well . . . . . it IS, and that's one way to develop your hands.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 28 Jul 2002 6:53 am

I took Donny's advice a while back. I don't reccomend it to anyone though because it is hard to get used to.

I put a 15Kohm resistor between the ground tab on my pot and ground. What that means is the pedal is already on in the full off position. I selected a value that would give me my background fill level. Probably becasue of the audio taper on the pot, the postions at the beginning of the pot are a lot more even or smooth and control is easier for me at the very beginning of the pot or pedal movement since they are more graduated because of that taper.

Drawbacks are obvious; you don't make any contact with the strings when you don't want to be playing or heard. You are already on !
And if someone wants to set in on your rig, they are in for a surprize. I intend to add a switch to short out the resistor I've added for those occasions.

Regards, Paul

[This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 28 July 2002 at 07:56 AM.]

Post by **Joey Ace** » 28 Jul 2002 7:33 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"I often wondered if it would be usefull to practice slow tunes with a VU meter (sound level meter) connected on the amplifier and try to keep the needle on the meter steady. Has anyone ever tried this?"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny you should ask. I do!

I have an SM57 on my Nash 400 and it runs to an ART Studio V3 PreAmp that has a retro-looking analog VU meter. It sets at my eye level.

I needed it to keep my home recordings from clipping, then discovered it's useful to keep on even when not recording.

Thanks to the above responders, keep 'em coming!

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 28 Jul 2002 12:05 pm

So, you have one eye on the VU meter, and one eye on the fretboard?

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 28 Jul 2002 5:41 pm

Some steel players have their volume pedal adjusted so that when they fully let up on the pedal, there is no sound. I don't agree with this set-up. I think it should be slightly "on" even if if is supposed to be completely "off." It gives you a head start without any hestitation when you give it the gas. Works for me. Also, as others have stated, the amp needs to be up at quite a good volume.

Andy Greatrix · Post by **Andy Greatrix** » 28 Jul 2002 8:20 pm

Guitar players use their volume control on every note, to try to sound like a steel.
Jeff Newman says it's like closing your mouth between every word when you speak,

When you are playing a steel, it will sound like a steel, even if you are not using a volume peddle.

I use my volume peddle to turn up for the breaks, and to turn down for the fills.
When I want to be silent, I mute with my right hand. It doesn't matter to me if the volume peddle is still on, when I turn it down.

That's my serman for today. I'll go and stand in the corner, now.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 28 Jul 2002 10:44 pm

must be the Amen Corner eh Andy ?
Great Thread guys...
Steel eatin' it up...

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 3 Aug 2002 11:21 pm

In this same thread, how many owners of Peavey amps use the volume pedal in/out for their volume pedals, vs. those who do it guitar - thru pedal - to amp input (the old fashioned way). I've used it both ways and the pedal travel/response is quite different depending on which way you hook it up. Which is REALLY the best?

Rusty Walker · Post by **Rusty Walker** » 4 Aug 2002 7:35 am

A few years ago I realized I had a pumping problem when I heard a playback of some studio work.It had become an unconsious thing.I made a mock pedal with a piece of 2x4 and shims to get the right foot feel.When I practiced, the fact that I was unable to pump caused me to concentrate on hand technique.It got rid of a bad habit & really improved my right hand.

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 4 Aug 2002 12:35 pm

Very clever Rusty.

gary darr · Post by **gary darr** » 4 Aug 2002 7:03 pm

Rusty I wonder if one could install 1/4 inch jacks to that 2x4 to complete the illusion of the pedal....sorry couldnt help myself

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Rusty Walker · Post by **Rusty Walker** » 5 Aug 2002 1:46 pm

You could,gary.But it probably wouldn't sound worth a damn.

Al Brisco · Post by **Al Brisco** » 6 Aug 2002 6:01 pm

Since I am quite familiar with Joe's situation, I will state that he does not have a 'pumping' problem, but the opposite...he doesn't make use of the swelling effect for expression on slow tunes.
I've suggested that perhaps he has learned his technique from listening to styles such as 'Sleepwalk' by Santo & Johnny, where they didn't use a volume pedal.

Perhaps listening to Jimmy Day recordings might help Joe. I realize it is not possible to hear Jimmy in person anymore (dang it), but every time I heard him at St. Louis, he could control the 'ambiance noise volume' of the audience with just the expression of his volume pedal, as well as the dynamics of the band...something I've never seen done so well by other players.

I might also suggest leaving the pedal to 'shut off' in the rear position, as I'm sure that is how most of the players use it.

Also, may I suggest you use your ears instead of your 'eyes on a meter', as it is the ears that tell you how much to use...(let alone the people listening).

I suggest using your pedal from the 'off to half-way on' position....giving you extra sustain should you need it.
Keep Steelin'
Al B.

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 6 Aug 2002 8:43 pm

For a years I used a pedal bracket to keep the volume pedal close, and aligned to the pedal board, but it was hard to go right kick-right on my knee lever, and be perfectly consistent with the volume. I recently took off the bracket and positioned the pedal about 15 degrees slanting to the right. It feels more natural on my foot and helps me be more consistent on the R-K-R.

Larry Beck · Post by **Larry Beck** » 7 Aug 2002 1:05 pm

Lead Guitar Players seem to think that curling their pinky around the volume control and applying a huge surge of volume after every note will make them sound like a steel player. If you sound like that, you are doing it wrong.

BTW: Where do I apply for a permit to shoot guitar players who do that?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 7 Aug 2002 1:24 pm

excellent discussion and many words of widom spoken..typed ...here. When I returned to Steel from my self inlicted 12 year lay-off last year I practiced with no volume pedal ..dry..direct into my amp..It's quite amazing what comes out of the amp! . I had my right foot planted flat on the floor. After a while I pluged in the pedal and pretty much played at probably 3/4 pedal and my goal was no volume swell or pumpimg. I pretty much play with a consistent level
( maybe 3/4 pedal) and go full for sustain or maybe for a solo, I also roll back during songs where I step out . Something else I do here that I picked up watching John Hughey, when I roll back or step out of the song I put my bar down. It's amazing what it does to rest my tired left hand.
tp

Post by **Joey Ace** » 7 Aug 2002 1:29 pm

Thanks for all the input, guys.

(Yes I heard lead players do that, Larry. Sometimes with a volume pedal, yuk!)

Actually some on-going conversations with Al B. prompted this post. He's been advising me for a looooong time to use more V.P. expression. I work on it, but still need improvement.

I listen to my recordings and have an "acceptable technique", but want to be much better than that.

So, I'm looking for some very exact advice on what exersizes or tips you might have.

For example: I play a harmonized scale up and down the neck, picking only once in each direction, trying to the volume constant.

Ideas???

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 8 Aug 2002 7:02 pm

Buy the most expensive sports car you can afford, or not, drive the hell out of it, and you will have 'proper' volume pedal technique. In other words, pedal to the metal! If you think about how a singer sings, even when you talk....that's the same attack you use, whether you're trying to make a point(loud), or being sensitive(not so loud). But, you never sneek into what you're saying......think about it.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 8 Aug 2002 7:34 pm

Thanks a lot for starting this thread! I'm a new guy, and left hand, feets, and knees are nothing compared to right foot/right hand(blocking) technique. And I suspect I am not the only beginner with these problems. And itIS frustrating, when, after playing other instruments forever, to sit down at this nearly overpowering machine. So keep the technical info/suggestions coming, maybe eventually I'll make it to Saluda! God bless you all!!

Steve Benzian · Post by **Steve Benzian** » 8 Aug 2002 8:35 pm

For more on Volumne Pedal Technique see this previous discussion http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/003004.html

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 8 Aug 2002 8:47 pm

I made a mock pedal with a piece of 2x4 and shims to get the right foot feel.

I'm curious, Rusty: why didn't you just leave your pedal where it was and unplug it (take it out of the circuit)? Seems easier than making a mock pedal, no?

[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 08 August 2002 at 09:48 PM.]

Rusty Walker · Post by **Rusty Walker** » 11 Aug 2002 3:08 am

Jim,the idea was to stop the unconsious movement of the foot.By simply unplugging the pedal,I found that I was still moving my foot as if it was plugged in.I hear new players "sqeezing" out notes.I beleive the pedal is being used to compensate uncertainty.It's a habit that can develop.