Comment on my new copedant, please

Brian Lethert · Post by **Brian Lethert** » 30 Jul 2002 12:38 pm

I'm thinking I've finally got this the way I want it. I'm switching from a S-12 universal to extended E9.

I would like to know:

Am I crazy?
Any flaws in this setup?
Will I miss the low B on the universal?
Anything you would add?

<pre>

Left Knee | Pedals | Right Knee |
| | |
L V R | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 | L R |
| | |
F# | | G/G# |
Eb C# D | | |
G# | A G | |
E F | F# | Eb |
B | C# C# C# A Bb | |
G# | A A# F# G | F# |
F# | | |
E F | F# | Eb |
D | | |
B | C# Bb | |
G# | A G | |
E F D | | |

</pre>

Here is the thinking:

LKL E > F Lever - Obvious
LKV Eb > C# - For that unison trick with
the #1 pedal.

LKR Puts a D on string 2 with NO 1/2 stop!

P1 - P3 - Obvious

P4 - Currently on my guitar. I don't know what its official purpose is, but I like using while modulating P3. Anyone?

P5 - I think this is the so-called 'Franklin'
pedal?

P6 - Creates a nice minor, plus most of a diminished, I think.

P7 - Shows up on a lot of copedants. What the heck.

RKL - E > Eb Lever - Obvious, but lowers the D to C# making it more strummable.

RKR - On the guitar now. The only 1/2 stop that I plan to have. Drops the 6th string to F#. (This was recommended to me.)

Thanks- Brian

Lawrence Thomas · Post by **Lawrence Thomas** » 30 Jul 2002 3:28 pm

Looks good but sinceyouhave the franklin pedal G# to F# Id put low F# to G# on RKR which works good for me.You could also add D# to E on this lever.

Dennis Boyd · Post by **Dennis Boyd** » 31 Jul 2002 8:58 am

Hi Brian,

Your copedant looks good. I would miss having the low B, but the Extended E9th is probably better for scale runs across the strings.

Some suggestions I'd have would be to include a D to C# change on string 9 with your VL lever.

P4 is a standard C6 (B6) change that gives you a dominant 7th chord on F# or a BMaj9th with RKL engaged.

P5 is the Franklin (P4) pedal change except he adds B to A on string 10 also.

I use your P6 and P7 changes except on knee levers. You may want to look at placing the P6 pedal at the P1 position. All minor triads are then accessible between P1(G#-G), P2(B-C#) and RKL(E-D#). If you still wanted the diminished 7th chord change then switch places between your LKR and P7. I think you'll find the B to A#(Bb) change more useful with a knee lever.

Another suggestion that is probably less important would be to lower string 12 from E to C# on your LKR (P7) change. This gives you a good power chord (5th) between strings 11 and 12. If you play rock or blues this change will work well along with your VL knee lever that lowers string 9 from D to C#. A nice minor pentatonic scale on C# sits perfectly there when those changes are available.

Just my 2 cents Brian. Check it out though, you may like some of those changes. Good luck.

Dennis

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 31 Jul 2002 9:55 am

I agree with everything said so far. I could play that tuning . . . in fact I have for a couple of months and, like Dennis, I missed the string grips I'd been using for 25 years on B6. The low B is not as big a deal as having to jump over the 9th string and all the readjustment of the grips that entails. I tuned the 9th to C# and raised it to D when I needed it -- seemed to get in the way less often that way. Works well with the B6 tuning. I also had what was left of the standard B6 changes, but found it really difficult to play most of my C6-style instrumental tunes, so after a couple of months I chucked it.

This decision was predicated on my having played a lot of sixth tuning stuff on the universal for a long time PLUS my old brain not readily adapting to the advantages that the more closely voiced bottom end affords. In no way do I suggest that you be swayed by my prejudice. Also, realize that some C6 players have dropped the bottom C, in lieu of a D on the 7th string (DECAGEDCAF hi to lo), which, in B6, would be C#D#BG#F#D#C#BG#E -- very similar to the tuning you propose once you lower 4, 8, and 9 each 1/2 step.

I would have a bit of a problem with G# to G and B to Bb on pedals. I would probably put G# to G to the left of the A pedal and put the B to Bb on a lever (and, possibly, only lower the top B).

All this stuff depends on what you play and how you think. There are 3 basic E9 pedals and 3 or 4 levers that will give you most of what you need to play country. When I bought my Emmons 12-string I used 3 pedals and 4 or 5 levers for a couple of months and found I could play a lot of 6th stuff with just the open B6 tuning. It was a great learning experience. If you don't play much swingy, jazzy stuff, the tuning you suggest offers a lot -- plus you do have the 'Ma9' pedal (P4 in your setup). I would probably swap P5 and P6 to make the Franklin 5/6 lower more accessible to the E9 pedals.

I could ramble even more than I have already, but I'll stop here. If you want to discuss offline, drop me an EMail.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 31 Jul 2002 10:01 am

Your left foot will usually be over pedals 1 and 2 ("A" and "B" pedals). It is a long way from there to pedal 7. Maybe you should consider putting some of your pedals to the left of your "A" pedal, to reduce long moves for your left foot.
What works for me is to move the "A" and "B" pedals toward the center of the guitar, as 2 and 3, or 3 and 4. But befroe you do, be sure that your left knee levers will be in a good spot. On some steels you can move the left knee levers to the right.

Brian Lethert · Post by **Brian Lethert** » 1 Aug 2002 5:26 am

I should add that I play mostly country and that I have played a standard E9 tuning for 17 years. This makes the missing D feel weird.

BL

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 2 Aug 2002 5:26 am

I have the B-Bb on pedal7 and I use my right foot to play that pedal. I can use it together with RK lowering 2&9 to C#. Also the B-Bb seems to work in almost any combination that the left foot does. My setup is not that different. The F#-G I can do with half-pressing RKR.

<pre>
LKL1 LKR RKL RKR1
String LKL2 LKV P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 RKR2
1 F# | | | | | | | | F | | | | | G# | |
2 Eb | | | | | | | | | | | |D/C#| | |
3 G# | | | | | | A | | | | | | | | A |
4 E | F | | F# | Eb | | | F# | | | | | | | |
5 B | | | | | C# | | C# | | | C# | Bb | | | |
6 G# | | G | | | | A | | | A# | A# | | | | |
7 F# | | | | | | | | F | | | | | G# | |
8 E | F | | | Eb | | | | | | | | | | |
9 D | | | | | | | | | | | | C# | | Eb |
10 B | | | | | C# | | | | | | Bb | | | |
11 G# | | G | | | | A | | | A# | | | | | |
12 E | F | | | | | | F# | C# | | | | | | |

</pre>
ZumSteel S12
Bengt Erlandsen