Catholic PSG

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 10 Jul 2002 9:18 am

I always read about you cats playing you PSG in church and assume that you are talking about more charismatic religions than the Roman Catholic faith. I grew up where there was no country music or sacred steel, so I cant imagine having a PSG in mass. It would be pretty cool!

Let me know if there are any Papist pickers out there!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 10 Jul 2002 9:35 am

I don't know the Catholic music, but the Lutheran Hymnal is fun to work through. It's all 4-part harmonies. I've never heard steel in a Lutheran church, though.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 10 Jul 2002 10:22 am

I do remember, however, back in the 1960s the Catholic church was very progressive in sponsoring 'folk masses' where the service was basically turned into a 'Hootenanny' -- Michael Row the Boat Ashore and Kum Bay Ya. Maybe they'd be receptive if you asked.

Most liturgical music I grew up with was (in the Baptist church) was based on Baroque and Classical melodies. The only accompaniment was a piano on one side of the sanctuary and a pipe organ on the other. A lot has changed in that regard, probably to optimize turnout for the services.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 10 July 2002 at 11:23 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 Jul 2002 11:56 am

Up here in the tundra, I don't hear of any country music being playing in the Catholic church but they do have quite a few polka masses, especially in the German communities.
Uff-Da!

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 10 Jul 2002 3:16 pm

I had thought of approaching Father O'Reilly of St David's R.C. here in Davie, Florida with a few pedal steel instrumentals that I am able to play real good using rhythm tracks that I have (Hal Rugg & John Hughey rhythm tracks) which are old Protestant hymns. John & Hal have them on their latest CDs. Anyway before I do I'll let the pastor hear what the CDs songs sound like, he's an Irish priest and loves Country Music. The church has two Carnivals a year and they use local country bands for entertainment, again Father O'Reilly loves C&W music (and beer too). So when I get enough never up, I'll ask him if I can play a few steel instrumental during a Sunday mass. The old Latin songs which I sang in the choir back in the 1960's would sound cool as steel instrumentals.

The songs the Catholic church uses today are as bad as they can come, I have been to various Christian/Protestant dominational services and boy can they cook up some very good enjoyable religious music, I hate to leave their services, their preaching also can real hit home inside one's soul & heart. I often thought maybe these church pastors can do some preaching at Catholic churches and even have their bands perform. I will admit as a Catholic, that outside of what the mass represents, the Catholic music and preaching needs lots of improvement.

Another interesting item, during the mass if the organist & female singer use a Protestant hymn, the entire congregation joins in, now why is that so???????

KEN

Joey Gaskins · Post by **Joey Gaskins** » 10 Jul 2002 6:03 pm

I don't know much about the Catholic religion, I was born and raised in a Baptist church and now attend a Pentacostal church. I guess that makes me a Bapticostal.

KENNY KRUPNICK · Post by **KENNY KRUPNICK** » 11 Jul 2002 6:46 am

Joey, I guess you could say that if you received the baptisim in the holy ghost.

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 11 Jul 2002 6:49 am

Well I guess that my experience is universal! As far out as I ever saw, was at Sat. evening mass, they would have a "Folk" mass, maybe an electric bass, jazz guit. and some acoustics.

I think the reason that old and formal religions dont have far out music, is that the power core of these old religions control the content. As opposed to me getting a wild hair and wanting to start my own church, let me tell ya, the message would be the same, but the music would be way different. Come to my new church and hear some christian-vibrotwang-country-spacerock!

YEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 11 Jul 2002 7:09 am

I was raised in the Church of God denomination, Cleveland TN variety. I am still a member and it seems that our denomination has always produced good music.
Lari Goss is one of the greatest keyboardists and producers ever! Geron Davis likewise. Judy Jacobs and Steve Brock with the Benny Hinn ministry, also. These guys are in the limelight (TBN and Gaither) but it seems our church has been blessed with many other great musicians. Their music has always been an integral part of worship, which, in my opinion, is the reason we were created in the first place!
"Praise Him on that Pedal Steel, All ye people!"

Tony Orth · Post by **Tony Orth** » 11 Jul 2002 9:25 am

Matt,

Being that I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic churches most of my life, I agree with you. I've been a musician for many years and had this concern so I asked a local priest about it some years back. He explained that, generally, the music should be secondary to the ritual/rite of the mass. It should not stand out as a separate activity but blend with, and be secondary to, the rite. Therefore, certain instruments, like drums for example, are normally not found in Catholic services.
That would be too distracting from what is going on at the altar, which should be the center of attention in the Catholic rite. All focus is on the celebrant.

I've also found that there is some difference in opinion from one priest to another. There is one local priest who will allow many non-traditional instruments in his church. Even a young comtemporary christian band performed before the mass once.

Although for other reasons, I have recently joined a United Methodist church. I've played bass and steel in the worship band and it gives me great spiritual uplifting to do so, and see others who the music moves spiritually.

Perhaps, one day, we'll have a breakthrough in the Catholic philosophy. Until then it will remain primarily traditional.

God Bless
Tony

KENNY KRUPNICK · Post by **KENNY KRUPNICK** » 11 Jul 2002 7:19 pm

Hi Reggie, I'm with The Church Of God from Cleveland Tenn.here in Columbus.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 12 Jul 2002 2:44 am

A good friend of mine does the music at mass on ocassion....A couple years ago he asked me to join him on pedal steel. I did several services with just him and a flattop guitar leading the congregation and me on steel. I am not Catholic and did not know the music...I had to learn it off sheet music and chord charts. Beautiful music.....Very difficult.....but it remains one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had.

a

Jason Stillwell · Post by **Jason Stillwell** » 12 Jul 2002 4:57 am

As a musician, I am definitely in the minority for preaching only a cappella singing in worship to God. Nowhere in New Testament scriptures is worship using mechanical instruments authorized; instead, we are told to sing and make melody in our hearts to the Lord (see Eph. 5:19).

Ladies and gentlemen, my flamesuit is now firmly fastened into place.

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 12 Jul 2002 5:16 am

Jason, No Flames! I wish I were better versed in Scriptures but I'm not so .... it is written in The Word about a " ten stringed instrument" in the Old Testament. It also speaks of Harps and horns etc.
regards, fred

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 12 Jul 2002 6:59 am

I know the Australian band 'the Catholics' has a very good steel player. I don't know if this counts.....

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www.tyacktunes.com

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 12 Jul 2002 5:53 pm

Depending on the particular translation, there are three references to "giving praise to the Lord on an instrument of 10 strings" in the Psalms. The words to a good old gospel hymn can speak to the soul as well as a moving sermon. Some people feel that if there is only one God, we should all be able to worship in one church. However, this is not necessarily true. Some of us feel more comfortable worshiping in one type of church over another type. Some feel more comfortable in a more formal type of congregation and this also means the music being played. I was raised in a formal type protestant denomination and wound up leaving it as I felt it was not teaching a true biblical gospel. The service along with the music being presented is usually unique to that denomination. As the saying goes: "Different strokes for different folks". Remember, you are not going to do much changing within the denomination, you are the one that has to do the changing even if it means looking around for a church you feel more comfortable with and which enhances your worshiping and praising our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Erv
[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 12 July 2002 at 07:00 PM.]

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 12 Jul 2002 7:36 pm

I believe that both Old and New Testaments of the Bible work hand in glove, together.
One isn't complete without the other. Jesus was first prophesied about in Genesis, the first book of the Old Testament! My point being, the Old Testament is relevant, and so is worshipping God with a pedal steel. I can think of NO higher praise!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However, I respect Jason, or anyone else's right to differ.

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 13 Jul 2002 6:47 am

My buddy actually plays lead guitar and steel w/ Frank Black(ex Pixie) and the Catholics.

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 14 Jul 2002 5:49 am

If the good Lord didn't want us to play gospel music on the pedal steel, he wouldn't have made it sound so good!

Erv

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 14 Jul 2002 7:04 am

I know a lot of churches in the Protestant faith just use organ and/or piano, similar to the Catholic church. The nondenominational Protestant church my family attends has a full modern combo up front with drums, bass, piano, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, harp, and assorted vocalists. They even let me in on steel occasionally.

And David and all Israel played before God with all their might, and with singing, and with harps, and with psalteries, and with timbrels, and with cymbals, and with trumpets. - 1 Chronicles 13:8

This is likely at least part of the basis for the latitude seen in the music performed in today's churches.

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Bill L | My steel page | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50?[This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 15 July 2002 at 08:22 AM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 14 Jul 2002 7:48 am

Bob Hoffnar put me onto a book by Stuart Isacoff titled Temperament. If you want to learn about the Church and it's roles in music, I would highly recomend this book. It's an old story but really told well if you're looking for this sort on information.

JODY PS: $23 at Barnes and Noble....

Regards, Paul

[This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 14 July 2002 at 08:50 AM.]

Jason Stillwell · Post by **Jason Stillwell** » 18 Jul 2002 11:06 am

Please see my <a href=http://www.geocities.com/soper_1/page2.html>article</a> concerning New Testament authority on instrumental music vs. a cappella singing only.
http://www.geocities.com/soper_1/page2.html [This message was edited by Jason Stillwell on 18 July 2002 at 12:07 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 Jul 2002 3:22 pm

I'm sure you disagree with Catholics on more fundamental points than the use of instruments in Mass, Jason.

But this isn't really the place for such debate.

The bottom line is that most Catholic churches see music as incidental, and they really don't want anything that would distract from the rituals. The traditional church pipe organ is sort of a numbing, awe-inspiring noise that is rarely "musical" in the modern sense of the word (IMHO). A pedal steel would sound better, yes, but better sounding music isn't what Catholicism is about, is it?

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Bill Fall · Post by **Bill Fall** » 19 Jul 2002 11:07 am

Thanks, Bobby, for keeping the discussion on topic. And you're right -- as was the explanation given by a priest to Tony Orth: In the Catholic Faith (at least as it was held and practiced for centuries), the Mass is not only central, but transcends all earthly senses and comprehension. In Catholic belief, it's not merely a service of worship; it's a Holy Sacrifice divine in its nature.

Consequently, the last canonized pope, St. Pius X, imposed strict rules as to what kind of instruments and music could be played at Mass. (If only the Church still observed those rules, instead of promoting the insipid stuff that's passed off in Masses today as "sacred music"!)

But outside Mass Pope Pius X loved good popular music of his day so much, that I'm convinced he'd have admired the sound of a pedal steel, had it existed in his early 20th century.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 19 Jul 2002 1:54 pm

bOb and Bill Fall--You are correct. Being raised a Catholic, Mass was first. As far as the music, the musical mass was called a High Mass and the Priest would chant and the Choir with the organ would answer. The harp, violin, and trumpet were also allowed. At that time, the Church wanted only the traditional church music, but today the Church is more liberal. I remember when I was first playing steel, a friend of mine who sang and played guitar was asked by his aunt for us to play a recital in their Protestant Church. Here I was--up on the alter--playing my E-harp and asking God for forgiveness because we were playing "Your Cheatin' Heart" in the Church

Joe