If it's good enough for Jerry, it's good enough for me

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 3 Jul 2002 9:30 pm

I saw this on Jerry Brightman's Website:

I endorse the Emmons guitar because I feel it set the standard years ago that all the others have tried to copy without success to this day.

Well said Jerry, there's really nothing else IMHO that can compare to an Emmons. We all know that and zumothers hate to admit it. Nick

My Website:
http://personal.bellsouth.net/bna/a/m/am1070/page12.html

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 06 July 2002 at 11:10 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 Jul 2002 7:27 am

While Emmons set a high standard, all of the "others" have not been trying to copy it. Look at Sierra and GFI, for example. Their guitars do not attempt to look or sound like an Emmons.

Emmons guitars are very fine instruments, but some of us prefer different sound characteristics for the kinds of music that we play. An Emmons would sound out of place in the band I'm working with now. It's a good sound, but it's the wrong sound for most of our "new age rock" music.

I wouldn't hesitate to take an Emmons to a country or western gig, or to church. I really prefer my Sierra, though, for its tonal versatility when I have to cover a lot of different styles.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 4 Jul 2002 8:07 am

I'm a fan of different guitars although Emmons is my guitar of choice. There certainly isn't anything wrong with the sound of the older Sho-Bud guitars. That was a Sho-Bud Buddy played on Nightlife wasn't it? I'm not at all sure the Sho-Bud didn't set the standard of tone for the Emmons guitars back then. Some sound very similar to me. If you were going after a specific tone say from the Emmons guitar what would you do to make it sound the same or say from a Zum? I know people can copy the design or the looks but how can you copy the tone? If you start using the same exact materials by length and all the gauges wouldn't that put you in the category of copyright infringement?

Post by **Joey Ace** » 4 Jul 2002 8:30 am

Why do folks try to insist there's only one best instrument?

Do you really believe that?

I don't.

There may be one best for you and the sound/feel/whatever you like. But not for everyone.

The forest would not benifit from all the birds sounding alike.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 Jul 2002 10:03 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It's a good sound, but it's the wrong sound for most of our "new age rock" music.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. IMHP Emmons is substantially better sounding and more versatile sonically than most steels out there. The sound it has going for it is a very strong accentuation of the even overtones. It also holds the lower overtones for longer than most other instruments. You can get more sonically out of an Emmons because it gives you more to work with in the first place. Focused and full. They can sound as sweet, round and soft as anything as well as gnarly and cutting. This goes for both the new and old style Emmons that I have spent time with. I play a JCH and a Franklin, which I think of as top-level guitars tone wise also. Emmons is up there towards the top of my list of the best sounding steels.

Bob
[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 04 July 2002 at 11:06 AM.]

Chuck Norris · Post by **Chuck Norris** » 4 Jul 2002 11:12 am

Somebody once told me that a Tele was the only guitar for country music, therefore that would be the guitar I would least be likely to buy. People must believe in creativity or every sound`s the same, the worst part of the commercial music Industry.
That EMMON`S SOUND CAME ABOUT BY SOMEBODY BEING CREATIVE. Jerry is a great player and has a great tone but there are other sound`s out there don`t limit yourself, keep your option`s open and I think Jerry would say the same.
There lot`s of good guitar`s out there, that have there own sound. Mullen has it`s own sound, GFI, Another sound just as good as Emmon`s only differant.
Happy Creative Steelin
Chuck Norris NFM

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 4 Jul 2002 12:09 pm

Having owned a push/pull for 23 yrs., I can relate to anyone favoring an Emmons, & you have some right PERDY guitars there, Nick. But I have to go with everything Joey said. And b0b doesn't need me to back him up, but I'll go ahead & say in his defense; sure, I know very well that an Emmons is workable, to say the least. And hypothetically, if I were back in the "arms race" competing for sessions again, & if I was honored with a "new age rock" session, I myself know I could get the job done with an Emmons. HOWEVER, if I just happened to have a GFI in my arsenal, I would take it along as well & with what I know now, probably end up cutting the track with the GFI, NOT that the Emmons couldn't cut it, but in the past, producers have appreciated hearing a DIFFERENT voice, & believe it or not, there are people making the decisions out there that CAN tell the difference between an Emmons, Sho-Bud, Sierra, Derby, GFI, Carter, Zum, Fessenden, on & on, etc. b0b feels the Sierra works better for him if he gets hit with someone that wants him to "sound different". I totally relate to that situation.
Right now I choose to play only one steel that I feel is the best for me in whatever situation. But I do feel that Joey & b0b are right in that yes, the Emmons is versatile, but that there are other guitars that even though not as versatile, they may be better suited for a particular application. Good discussion. Thanx, Nick!

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 4 Jul 2002 1:40 pm

My earlyl '70's Emmons P/P...provides me with an exceptionally high standard of service and reliablity. It has always delivered a wide range of dynamic sounds and tonal variations. I simply couldn't be happier with this wonderful instrument. The ProFexII expands those variables far beyond anything I might otherwise ever have ever envisioned.
I've NEVER been able to produce that most unique signature sound of the early day ShoBuds....which I always found to be very tasteful. But like my old Ricks....unless you have one, you just ain't gonna find and capture "that sound".
Developing "the sound you want" with what you have, I believe, is the real secret.
It's a BIG CHALLENGE........but that's what music is all about.

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 4 Jul 2002 2:23 pm

It's interesting that great players like BE have played different axes throughout their careers and, to me, sound the same or nearly the same on any instrument.

Can you really say that one instrument has the "best sound" till you've owned and performed on all the ones you claim are inferior?

I always thought Martin-type guitars were the only "correct" sounding guitar for bluegrass and "new grass." Then I heard a record by Russ Barenbeg, loved the sound and was amazed to find out he played an old Gibson jumbo guitar.

I won't get into the fray about "best" sounding PSG's but I've been playing my brand "Z" guitar for a few years and it is capable of many sounds, all of which are pleasing to my ears. To me, the greatest variable is in amps and FX, plus the position of the amp when you play. That said, I do miss the tone of the harmonics I used to get out of my old 'Bud. They seemed to ring out a little brighter and louder than this (Zum) guitar.
--JR

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 Jul 2002 8:57 pm

When I had an Emmons, I was never happy with the way that it sounded in the overdrive channel of my amp. The clean tone was good, but it was always harsh when driving distortion. The Sierra just works better for me when I kick into rock.

My Williams reminds me a lot of the old Sho-Buds. I use it for country gigs. Oddly, it sounds much better through the Webb than it does through my rack (which is essentially a high-powered Mesa/Boogie). The Sierra/rack combination works well for rock, and the Williams/Webb works well for country. Both guitars sound great with my little Boogie combo amp.

I don't think there's a guitar/amp combination that can "do it all" to my satisfaction. An Emmons is great for the country side of things, though. If that's what you do most of the time, you can't go wrong with an Emmons. If Emmons made a keyless crossover model, I might be tempted to trade in my Williams. I've never played anything that could beat the Sierra for rock, though. Just my opinion.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 4 Jul 2002 9:11 pm

Yeah Chuck Norris--I'm with you on that one.

"nothing else that can compare to an Emmons as we all know "

Maybe not all of us know. I have two PP Emmons that sit in their cases since I found another guitar that suits me better...[This message was edited by John Macy on 04 July 2002 at 10:13 PM.]

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 4 Jul 2002 9:12 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
and, to me, sound the same or nearly the same on any instrument.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I have to respectfully disagree. Listen to BE on any of the Price stuff, then listen to him on either the Gram Parsons or Roger Miller stuff, and tell me he sounds the same. For all I know, he could have been using the same brand of guitar too... but the tone is vastly different to my ears. Just my subjective subjectivity.

-John
 Entirely subjective of course.

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 4 Jul 2002 11:38 pm

Buddy sounds are similar, but different. Still, he always sounds like Buddy. It's almost all in his hands.

It's also partially the guitar's inherant tonal characteristics. Buddy has used many different brands of guitar, (obviously Sho~Bud, Carter, MCI, EMCI, Sierra, Derby and even a Dekley.) He said that the whole time he was chasing a tone that was in his head. If he didn't hear that tone, he would keep looking. Come to find out it was the sound of the Emmons guitar.

He said that the all-pull Emmons doesn't sound exactly like the push-pull Emmons guitars, but that it's close enough for him, given the advantage of split tuning and the anti-detuning mechanism.

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com[This message was edited by Ernie Renn on 05 July 2002 at 01:03 AM.]

Jerry Brightman · Post by **Jerry Brightman** » 5 Jul 2002 5:45 am

I just read this post this morning..and to
be VERY clear, I did not start this thread,
but I feel I must respond to this.
This is my quote on my website and I endorse
this instrument at this time and in my
opinion...
Per Bob,
"I wouldn't hesitate to take an Emmons to a country or western gig, or to church."
"An Emmons would sound out of place in the band I'm working with now. It's a good sound, but it's the wrong sound for most of our "new age rock" music."

I'm sure you meant in your opinion...

I agree it's not just the instrument, but just as much it's the player. I've played
this instrument for 43 years, and feel I
have some feel for what it can do. I played
in a rock band last night with the guitar
player playing a double stack Marshall..
with my Emmons...however, I also play
country gigs and church, with the same
guitar. I'm not taking this personally, I'm just attempting to say, as Joey said, I don't think there is only one guitar, Emmons
is just the brand I choose to play.

I'll not debate this as it's all types of
opinions and thats the way it should be...I know and am friends with most of the other
builders, have owned some of thier guitars and always visit with them at shows. I think they all build fine and different instruments..I just choose an Emmons, as
it's what I've played most of my professional career.

I think we may have judged the book by it's cover without all the possible facts...and especially in regards to what the
combination of player/instrument can do...in my opinion.

Jerry http://www.slidestation.com
[This message was edited by Jerry Brightman on 07 July 2002 at 06:01 AM.]

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 5 Jul 2002 7:57 am

Jerry:
I myself prefer the P/P's, but I also have a LeGrande III.
Being one of your biggest fans, I think you'd sound great on anything. I'd like to say seeing well renowned pro-players like yourself, the Big E, Weldon, Ernie Renn, Wayne Dahl and others playing Emmons guitars really makes a little ole country boy like me feel good. . . .I sure do like em! Got 4 myself. Nick

My Website:
http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/a/m/am1070/page12.html

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Jul 2002 10:34 am

Right, Jerry. I listened to that link and it's similar to the tone I was getting when I played an Emmons (though I didn't play as well

). Thanks for posting it.

You are right that it's a matter of opinion. To me, that tone just isn't the sound in my head when it comes to rock steel. The distortion has sharp edges instead of the rounded edges I prefer, if that makes any sense. Also, there's an element of "twang" in the tone that I'd rather not have.

Compare it to Eric Clapton or Hubert Sumlin's guitar, or to Chuck Campbell's steel. Those are more the kind of tones I gravitate towards in rock. Not that I get them all the time, but I get them more often on the Sierra than I did on the Emmons.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 05 July 2002 at 11:36 AM.]

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 5 Jul 2002 11:17 am

If it's good enough for Jerry, it's good enough for me

When I saw that title I thought this was another discussion on Mr. Garcia.

Jerry Brightman · Post by **Jerry Brightman** » 5 Jul 2002 11:42 am

b0b,

Great discussion and I'm glad you understood
my point...heck, I don't know it all.
BTW, thanks for the compliment too.

I'll be putting some samples on my website,
I haven't shared the good stuff yet..

Love you all..and love the steel guitar,

Jerry http://www.slidestation.com

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 7 Jul 2002 6:45 pm

and what about the tuning,440 or not

???

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http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne/damirzanne1.html

Jerry Brightman · Post by **Jerry Brightman** » 8 Jul 2002 4:29 am

Hi Damir,

Sorry, I don't understand your question in regard to tuning???

Jerry[This message was edited by Jerry Brightman on 08 July 2002 at 05:33 AM.]

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 8 Jul 2002 8:44 am

b0b,
about the Emmons not sounding too good with distortion - maybe it depends also on how you´re getting the distortion. Buddy Cage played some pretty cool distorted stuff on his Emmons in the ´70s, but he mostly used a Bosstone. I think most "traditional" steels, and I guess you can count the Emmons among those, won´t sound too great if you use the distortion channel of an amp. Remember those amps were designed mostly with rock guitar players in mind. The Sierra may be one of the few steels that can take it. I once tried one myself and found it totally different from anything else I knew so far. The response was so fast it was frightening. I, too, think that it is an excellent rock steel, maybe not so much for classic country. I´d also like to say that I find the Emmons more versatile in comparison.

regards, Joe H.[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 08 July 2002 at 09:47 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Jul 2002 10:09 am

When I first got my Emmons in 1978, I used a Bosstone. Later I switched to a Mesa/Boogie, which sounded much better to my ears for rock. I switched to a Sierra Crown guitar in 1983.

I'll admit that it was harder to get the classic country sound out of the Sierra, but the rock tone I wanted was easier to get. The solution I finally came up with is to use a D-10 Williams crossover for country gigs, and an S-12 Sierra Session for rock gigs. I think that an Emmons could replace the Williams. It would sound different, but the difference is like Sho-Bud vs. Emmons - both are classic country sounds.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Sam White · Post by **Sam White** » 17 Jul 2002 7:07 am

Well guys I don't think you stopped to think about the sound of the Fessenden Steel Guitar. I have one and I know of a few guys that have both and they have the Fessenden at there gig so what is that telling you.Don't knock the Steel guitar unless you sit behind it and play it. It plays very easy and I have one of the best sounds your ears can hear.This is the dog gon truth.Now that is my opinion and I don't think I'm wrong.I have a good freind and he has a Emmons and I sat behind his and a couple of more and the pedals to me push a lot harder than my Fessenden so now why is that??
Sam White

Cairo Zoots · Post by **Cairo Zoots** » 17 Jul 2002 5:19 pm

If I may........

Emmons owners have well developed leg/foot muscles from Kickin' Buttand runnin' away with the show!

Fessy owners don't hafta run?

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ree-00-dee-doo