another string breaking story

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 5 Jul 2002 1:40 pm

I have a 99 carter that really plays great when you can play it without breaking the third, oh after you put two or three on and finnaly get it to hold pitch it will last for several gigs, but boy if you break one while your out, or at home you might as well get three strings out, usally takes that many to get one to stay.
so the first thing some of you will say will be a burr, well ive check and checked, used a q tip to try to find it, still no find, but it breaks right at the ball, I thought well the strings were doing it I was using ernie ball's always worked good on the old sho-bud, or even older Msa. so I tried a different kind as a matter of fact several different kinds. still pop pop pop, only when you putting a new one on, and of course im not over turning,get it to pitch push pedal it stretchs pull it back up to pitch several times, then just when you think you got it pop she goes.
also I read a thread where too make sure you have enough at the keys well yep did that too, so what im saying is im out of things to try, cant take the guitar out to play with fear of poping the string that it took three to get going. oh I did in fact write carter several days ago but no responce they may be on vacation or just decided not to answer me , but still not being negative here just need some help, or someone to take it off my hands. lol west virgina

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 5 Jul 2002 1:52 pm

No (burrs),and your not over (tuning).Got to be bad strings.You said you have tried several different brands.My (guess) is all the brands you've tried so far have been bad.It can happen.Don't give up yet.------bb Ps. I would check the roller bridge if you haven't already.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Jul 2002 1:55 pm

If they're breaking at the ball end, you've probably got a sharp edge in the changer string-slot. Get a good oval jeweler's file (they're special...quite small) and a magnifying glass, and then round-off any sharp corners you can see in the slot, especially those two at the top. (You want a small radius on all the corners.) Due to the inaccessibility of these slots, though, the changer finger may have to be removed to get at some of the corners.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 05 July 2002 at 02:57 PM.]

Al Miller · Post by **Al Miller** » 5 Jul 2002 3:03 pm

HEY BUD!!
DONT TRY AN RUSH
THE STRING UP TO PITCH JUST TUNE IT UP EASY TUNE IT UP CLOSE THEN STRETCH IT AND THEN DO IT AGAIN FOR TWO OR three time try that
BOO

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 5 Jul 2002 3:04 pm

Bobby, i just now checked the roller and it was fine, so Im going to give dons advice a try, now finding that tool lol, and yes it has crossed my mind that the strings even though they are new could have been on the shelf on a few cold nights. its a shame that something that little is so hard to find. Joe

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 5 Jul 2002 3:09 pm

al,
thanks for your reply as well but ive even left it set over night tune it then come home that evening and do the same, it has to be maybe like don said in the finger, because as long as you dont push the pedal it wont pop, but the B pedal and you guys knows this all to well is the most used pedal on the guitar, I think lol, but after two or three pushs bang she goes. what a nightmare, ive not been out to play going on three weeks now due to this trouble, but i think with the find help of the people here we will figure it out. joe

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 5 Jul 2002 4:37 pm

Put a D-9th on that puppy.

Max Williamson · Post by **Max Williamson** » 5 Jul 2002 4:53 pm

When I put on a new 3rd string,I always pull it up to F#,Then I push my B pedal 4 or 5 times to stretch it. Then I pull it up to G#. This seems to work for me.MW

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 5 Jul 2002 5:01 pm

I wonder why the Carter folks haven't popped in with suggestions!

They answer on other topics ranging from finding other pickers to getting an old Sho-Bud refinished.

Has anyone else noticed that they never reply to posts concerning problems with their own guitars?[This message was edited by Jim Smith on 05 July 2002 at 07:51 PM.]

Don Olson · Post by **Don Olson** » 5 Jul 2002 5:42 pm

You have a burr.Can you measure the broken ball ends of the broken strings to find the spot.When you do all you can do is use a very fine Swiss file or stone.
ZUMSTEEL FOREVER

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 5 Jul 2002 6:13 pm

yes isure have measured where they break, and it seems to be in the slot where the ball holds on. another odd thing i may add also that although again with the other guitars in the past ive never broke the tenth string, since ive owned this guitar it has happen twice, so maybe what i need to do when i find that file is file all stings that pull just a little.
and yes i am shocked at the fact that carter hasnt wrote me back or responded to this thread, but again they may be gone. thanks again full the input Ill let you guys know if i have any luck. I hope I can fine a way to file it over the week end. Joe

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 5 Jul 2002 10:20 pm

I prefer to retain the string on a peg, rather than in a slot. On my Carter the ball end locates in a slot, but doesn't sit as neatly as I would wish. Having said that, I don't have any problem with string breakage. However, after reading about the problem, it brought to mind Bill Hankey's 'Lucky 7'. It might be possible to make an adaptor that fits in the string slot of the finger, with a peg on it to retain the string.

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 5 Jul 2002 10:50 pm

I would have too agree with the peg theory, but the downfall to that is on a very dark stage looking for the hole to slide the ball over lol, oh ive been there done that with a old push pull marlen many years ago lol. thanks again for sharing your thoughts. Joe

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 5 Jul 2002 10:56 pm

Joseph.When you said you had checked for burrs.I assumed you had checked the changer aswell as the tunning key.No burrs,if it's not the strings?Maybe you are twisting the string when you place the ball in the changer slot? If so.That may well be your problem.[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 06 July 2002 at 12:03 AM.]

Marco Schouten · Post by **Marco Schouten** » 6 Jul 2002 12:19 am

I go with Donny, there's got to be a sharp edge or so. If you can't fix it yourself, give Carter a call, I'm sure they will help you.

------------------
Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 6 Jul 2002 4:23 am

I guess Bobby is right about twisting the string, had the same problem some years ago.
What helps:
Start with putting the string on the keyhead, while holding the other end so the string is in a strait line. If it has enough turns to hook it up at the last possible moment, go with your hands to the keyhead, and let the string slip through your hand, so al the twists are out. Then hook it on the changer and turn it up. Tune it up the F# or G, leave it for a while, don't push pedals, and after about a minute tune it up to G#. Then slowly push the pedal, and tune it fine. Hope this helps. JJ[This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 06 July 2002 at 05:24 AM.]

Ann Fabian · Post by **Ann Fabian** » 6 Jul 2002 7:37 am

Joseph Barcus: Hi

Here is the last email we received from you on December 2 2001, regarding string breakage, where you state that you will be calling us as we suggested.

After that below, you'll see our email response to your email of the day before.

As noted in our reply to you, dated Sunday, December 2 2001, the way to receive technical support is to call and reach John Fabian or Bud Carter during normal business hours CENTRAL time Monday-Friday.

That way, Bud or John can ask you the necessary questions to determine the specific problem and correct solution. This is much faster and more accurate than email or posting on the forum.

Jim Smith: In reply to your July 5 2002 6:01 pm post above and edited on July 5 2002 at 7:51 pm:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I wonder why the Carter folks haven't popped in with suggestions! They answer on other topics ranging from finding other pickers to getting an old Sho-Bud refinished.

Has anyone else noticed that they never reply to posts concerning problems with their own guitars?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jim Smith: Thank you

for giving us the opportunity to publicly clarify our Customer Support practices here on the forum. Given our production schedule, we find that it is far more EFFICIENT and much more ACCURATE to handle customer support by telephone (given the amount of time it takes to craft an accurate response and the back and forth questioning that would go on using emails; a typical phone conversation is 5-15 minutes, whereas email or web responses can take hours and go on for days).

Jim Smith: in addition to that, as you know, we provide a HUGE amount of FREE technical information for the Carter and most other brands of steel guitars here on The Steel Guitar Information Resource: www.SteelGuitarInfo.com, as well as our main web site here: www.SteelGuitar.com which contains several areas of Carter Owner Support here: http://www.steelguitar.com/support/support.htm. In fact, the Carter-Starter** web site here: www.CarterStarter.com even has the beginnings of Carter-Starter online support here: http://www.carterstarter.com/support/index.html and here: http://www.carterstarter.com/FAQS/faqs.html#faq5_kladjust.

Note this Carter-Starter support link is actual videos and some of the Carter PRO model support links are videos and slide shows.

**For those of you who do not yet know, the Carter-Starter was designed by us and introduced in 2000 -- it is is a beginner/starter pedal steel guitar.

When we see people who post Carter customer support issues or problems, we send them an email similar to the December 2 2001 email you see from us to Joseph Barcus below.

Emails from and to Joseph Barcus December 1 and 2 2001:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
 -----Original Message-----
From: JBa9328547@aol.com [mailto:JBa9328547@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 8:56 PM
To: psgbuilder@steelguitar.com
Subject: Re: 3rd string breakage 

ann,
thanks for getting in touch, Im thinking it may be a bad batch of strings i
picked up. but I will call anyway. Joe

 -----Original Message-----
From: Carter Steel Guitars [maimailto:Psgbuilder@steelguitar.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 12:51 PM
To: 'JBa9328547@aol.com'
Subject: RE: 3rd string breakage

Joseph: Hi!

How are you . . .

For the most ACCURATE and FAST
information on your CARTER in this regard

Call and reach John or Bud at
972-288-9100 during normal business
hours CENTRAL time Mon-Fri
(they will have a few questions they will need
answered before they can attempt to answer this
ACCURATELY).

TRY to have your Carter in front of you when
you reach them if possible.

They are NORMALLY easy to reach.

If they are NOT available when you call,
rather than leaving a message,
just call back a few minutes/hours later or the
following day.

Warmest regards and Happy Holidays!

Ann Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars
800-969-7332 SALES ... new /used PRO models & ACCESSORIES
972-475-2324 International Sales
972-288-9100 TECH info/coaching
972-288-9169 FAX

 -----Original Message-----
From: JBa9328547@aol.com [mailto:JBa9328547@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 11:25 PM
To: psgbuilder@steelguitar.com
Subject: question

ann,
im having a little trouble maybe you or bud can help me with, it may not be
nothing but here it goes,
every time I break a 3rd string it takes two strings sometimes to get it
back, what i mean is i put the string on like i have for several years you
know stick on hold it and wind it on with a side winder, well i get it up to
pitch and of course pump the pedal to strech it before it only took a few
pumps but here the past few times it wont stay keeps droping i keep bringing
it back up then it breaks before it ever settles down, it may even be poor
strings but what would you say i try?
also just wondering is all but what does a double 10, 8 and 4 run these
days. Joe

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hope this clarifies the questions raised. Please feel free to call us on the telephone if you wish more information on these or other subjects.

Ann Fabian

Carter Steel Guitars
617 West Kearney Street
Suite 101
Mesquite, Texas 75149 USA {next to DALLAS}

PlayPSG@SteelGuitar.com

1-800-969-7332 orders (accessories and steels)
972-475-2324 Carter-Starter info and international PRO model sales
1-972-288-9100 technical info
1-972-288-9169 FAX
www.steelguitar.com
The Steel Guitar Information Resource
www.steelguitarINFO.com
OnLine Steel Guitarists Directory
www.OnLineSteelers.com
Carter-Starter web site
www.CarterStarter.com



[This message was edited by Ann Fabian on 06 July 2002 at 09:24 AM.]

Post by **Joey Ace** » 6 Jul 2002 8:12 am

My Carter is also a 99.
I've had no such problems, and it has a Lot of hours on it.

Once I had a bad batch of 11s, but that's a different issue.

I have at least 5 non-overlapping wraps around the tuning peg and stretch the new string several times with the A pedal before it's at full pitch.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 6 Jul 2002 8:20 am

What gauge string are you using?
I use a 12 gauge for the 3rd and besides having a fuller, richer tone, I seem to get longer life out of it.

Erv

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 6 Jul 2002 8:34 am

Ann, thanks for clarifying Carter's customer support policy, although a post suggesting that the person call you would be better PR than just private emails to the person. I am always impressed when Reece and Mike Brown do so. To the general Forum reading public, no response looks like avoidance or denial.

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 6 Jul 2002 9:44 am

Ann,
im sorry to make this out like this but i in fact did email just the other day, and not December. now thats not saying that it didnt get lost, and again im not being negative but yes i did email you 5 days ago so please take another look at your mail, and dont make me out a lier.
I wrote it to Bud, Bud,
This Is Joseph Barcus I have one of your guitars that i got from Tony Rankins a year ago I believe, heres my trouble
not long after i got the guitar I noticed that the third string wouldnt last long and when i go to replace the string i had to have two on hand because when putting the string on and getting it to hold its tune about 3 mins playing pop she goes, always breaking at the tail end right at the ball.
well I read your thread about placing strings on and done it just that way still ame thing. just to add that im a 10 year or more player and neveer ever had any trouble like this before out of my sho-bud, or Msa that had your name on it, i know youre a great builder of steels and has been for years. but its got to the point i cant depend on the guitar, tonight ive tried three strings on still pop,pop,pop.
i used a q tip looking for a burr, cant seem to locate one, ive tried different stings thinking maybe a bad batch of strings, im out of options, please help if you can, thanks Joseph Barcus 7/2/2002 10:46:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: JBa9328547
To: psgbuilder@steelguitar.com
there it is just how I wrote it, and Ann me and you never did get it off thats why i wrote it too bud, so if you have any suggestions please post them here, or maybe send me a replacement finger or 2, seems to be where the trouble is. thanks Joe

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 6 Jul 2002 9:51 am

well actually the email was sent 3 to 4 days ago look at the date, again ANN im not being mean just would like to have a fix is all, the action on the carter is second to best of course placing emmons on the top lol. so please dont take this out of context, im only looking for help. Joe

Ann Fabian · Post by **Ann Fabian** » 6 Jul 2002 9:53 am

Joseph Barcus

We never received the email to Bud this week. As I said, the last email about string breakage from you we received is December 2001. Bud usually does not have time to personally answer emails, as you can imagine.

If you wish to receive the support you say you do in order to troubleshoot this rather rare problem on the Carter, then:

STOP posting about it until you CALL and reach us on the telephone as you said you would in December and as you have been instructed to do at various times now, so we can resolve this problem.

When a Company tells you how it delivers Customer Support the best, we find with other products we purchase, it is usually advisable to FOLLOW their suggestions.

For the most ACCURATE and FAST
information on your CARTER in this regard

Call and reach John or Bud at
972-288-9100 during normal business
hours CENTRAL time Mon-Fri
(they will have a few questions they will need
answered before they can attempt to answer this
ACCURATELY).

TRY to have your Carter in front of you when
you reach them if possible.

They are NORMALLY easy to reach.

If they are NOT available when you call,
rather than leaving a message,
just call back a few minutes/hours later or the
following day.

Ann Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars
www.SteelGuitar.com

[This message was edited by Ann Fabian on 06 July 2002 at 11:01 AM.]

Larry Clark · Post by **Larry Clark** » 6 Jul 2002 10:10 am

Joseph, I don't know if you've tried any George L .011's yet but you should try some if you haven't already. I've experienced the same problem as you have with Fender,Ernie Ball, and D'Addario singles but not with the George L's. I don't know what the difference is but there does seem to be one.

Joseph Barcus · Post by **Joseph Barcus** » 6 Jul 2002 10:24 am

Larry,
thanks for your responce on this as well, and although ive run out of strings at this time I will indeed try those as well. ive tried everything but the georgels. im going to be at the mall maybe tomorrow and pick up five or ten of different kinds. and maybe a file. take care Joe