Emmons p/p date??? Ned Davis' guitar

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 30 Jun 2002 6:34 pm

I have Ned Davis' old rosewood Emmons p/p D-10. It was sold on Ebay from Ned's estate to Larry Bell. (Hi Larry) I got the guitar from Larry. Ned had trashed this guitar and Larry had Mike Cass rebuild it, completely restored. Beautiful work Mike! The changer-endplate had a funny fit and Mike Cass rounded up one that fit correctly. The guitar was also once a fat-back but Larry had Mike cut it. The word was that it was a '68 but they came to the conclusion that it is a'71.

BUT - As the story goes, Ned got hired by Jerry Lee Lewis around the time "What's made Milwaukee Famous." That was '68. Jerry Lee didn't like Ned's funky guitar so he bought him this rosewood Emmons. Ned didn't track the song but he was used for the following tour. The guitar was apparently purchased in either late '68 or early '69. I found this photo on the net:
http://www.angelfire.com/ny/lightsound/images/JerryLeeLS.JPG

I've analyzed this picture and that woodgrain pattern is IDENTICAL to mine, but the emmons logo looks to be the sticker and not the plastic logo like I have now. Also it was a fatback. Also the pedal stop bar is metal, not wood. This should make it a '69-'71 right?. I dont know if Mike Cass still has the old endplate but he believed that because of the terrible fit, it wasn't the original endplate. So we have no serial # to go on. Did Emmons make fatbacks in '68 or '69? Did Emmons use metal pedal stop bars then too? When did Emmons switch from the decal to the plastic emblem? I know Larry Bell and Mike Cass were convinced it's a 71 but this picture and the story from Tommy Skelton has me confused. Tommy remembers when Jerry Lee bought the guitar for Ned and that it was surely before 1970. Ned swore that this was one of the first pedal steels on national TV because of their Ed Sullivan appearance with this guitar. That was Ned's unsubstantiated belief however.

So I'm asking all you p/p historians to help me nail down this guitar's rough birthdate. I've got experts saying it's surely a '71 but here's a picture from '68 or '69 of Ned playing a rosewood p/p w/ Jerry Lee that looks EXACTLY like mine, and he only ever had one of them.

Brad Sarno
'66 S-10 p/p, '?? D-10 p/p, '69 Twin
St. Louis, MO

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 30 Jun 2002 7:08 pm

Brad,
Kenny Forbess is one you might want to contact. He was familiar with that guitar from long ago.

You basically know what I know about it and its history. It is a wonderful guitar.

Re: the fatback -- my 69 12 string has the carved back apron -- but I'm not sure whether that's indicative of anything for the D-10s. Also, check out This link

Mike did replace the chevron on the front, as I recall, but it did not have a decal. It had a ratty looking plastic chevron. Yes, Mike did a stupendous restoration on a tired old guitar.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 30 June 2002 at 08:28 PM.]

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 30 Jun 2002 7:36 pm

Larry, It was Kenny Forbess who contacted me with the info and Tommy Skelton's phone number. Tommy even has the original pickup that was sent to Emmons for a rewind. It's still in the package from Emmons because Ned never put it back in. Tommy is sending me the pickup. He remembers Ned getting that guitar and it was before he got his. And he got his in '69. Larry, if you get a chance, compare the old photo of Ned w/Jerry Lee to your photo of the Tank. I swear the woodgrain pattern is exactly the same. A bit blurry but you can tell by the general pattern that it's the same. That's gotta be it. How could it be any other? When that photo was taken is still up in the air but it sure seems to point to '68 or '69 based on the history of Ned's touring relationship with Jerry Lee.

Brad

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 30 Jun 2002 8:55 pm

Brad.
Ned brought A rosewood Emmons to my dad's shop in Nov of 69.He was with Jerry Lee at that time.They did a Sunday show and had 2 day lay over.So like everyone else in those days. They put together a jam.I was maybe 10 going on 21.

but already trying to play.All I thought about was steel.One of the things I remember most was how tall the guitar seemed.At least 1 inch above standard.Dad's 67 was an inch below standard.I could hardly see over Neds guitar.It came new with 4 or 5 knees and Ned later had Emmons INC add 2 or maybe 4.I seem to remember an up knee on the volume pedal side of the guitar?By far the most knee's I'd ever seen on a PSG at that time.Anyway, if you ask around I think you will find Ned had left Jerry Lee before the summer of 71.Sorry,I can't view your pic.But the guitar Ned brought to the shop was a fat back. -----bb [This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 30 June 2002 at 10:12 PM.]

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 30 Jun 2002 9:34 pm

Thanks Bobby! That clears things up a great deal for me. It's coming together before my eyes. It would make sense that it's a late '69 model. People say the fatback was a thing of '70 but late '69 is close enough. Also the steel pedal stop plate was introduced around that time replacing the maple strip that preceded it.

A remaining question I have is when did they switch from the Emmons decal to the raised plastic type emblem?

Also, when did the tone knob go from all black to black with a silver cap?

Thanks,
Brad Sarno
'66 Emmons S-10/'69 Emmons D-10/'69 Twin

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 30 Jun 2002 10:40 pm

Brad:
I know the 1970 model has the plastic emblem.Dad has a 1970 also.I would guess they changed to the emblem in late 69.I'm sure Mike Cass or Bobbe would know.But for some reason I want to think Neds guitar came with the Emmons decal.And he had it changed when the extra knees were added.
Don't get me wrong.It's not like we were close.He spent a day and night with us.After that.I played in a band that opened for Jerry Lee two or three times when he played our area.The last time I saw Ned is when he had all the knee pedals.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Jul 2002 5:22 am

The other thing I can tell you, Brad, is that the endplate that was on it was Nov-Dec 1967, according to the S/N chart on the Carter site (which may or may not be accurate). It was 10 numbers or so before The Blade, which is an early 1968 guitar (and which is not a fatback). I have the exact S/N if you'd like it -- since it was not the original endplate, it's kinda useless information.

I do have some original pictures you might be interested in -- took some closeups of the undercarriage -- don't remember whether I sent them to you or not. Let me know. I'll link to one example (see below).

The fellow I bought it from was Wayne Paden from the Phoenix area -- Chandler, AZ as I recall. He used to be on the Forum -- haven't seen him around lately.

Bobby,
When I got it, it had eight knees. Staggered RKL's -- but no RKV that I recall. Had 3 E9 Left (left/right/vertical), 2 C6 Left w/a vertical, and three on the right knee.
see picture of the undercarriage before Mike got hold of it
(the more I look at the picture it may have been 4 left E9 levers and just an 'up' in the middle for C6. I believe the staggered RKLs only worked one neck apiece.)
I would have sworn some of the rods and brackets were BRONZE there was so much tar and gunk stuck to them. Mike soaked them for several days and scrubbed them with steel wool to get it all off. (whattaguy!)

I'm also mystified why Ned's guitar was so tall in your description. Ned was not a tall man (maybe 5'6"?) and when I rec'd the guitar from Wayne, it was at least 1" -- probably 2" -- shy of std height. ??????

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 01 July 2002 at 10:43 AM.]

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 3 Jul 2002 9:12 am

Thanks for everyone's help, Tommy, Kenny, Larry, Mike, Paul, Bobbe, Bobby and the rest for helping me nail down the age of this guitar. It seems to be a early/mid '69. It's great to hear all these stories of a time when I was only 3.

Thanks guys,

Brad Sarno
'69 Emmons D-10/'66 Emmons S-10/'69 Twin