The Steel Guitar Forum

For those of you that play the C6 neck, here is some findings that may appear interesting to you.

For years it has been noted that Buddy Emmons ONLY raises and lowers the 3rd and 4th strings with his four knee levers. The question sometimes has been raised,

Why not raise both octaves? IE, both A's to Bb, or both C's to C#, etc.

I NOW know why. On my U-12, I am forced to do this and I dont like it! Yes, I don' like it. Here are two examples:

1. The B pedal emulates the B to Bb pull on C6. When I use it with other combinations on my U-12 that bottom G# to A ruins the chord.

2. The half A pedal emulates the C to C# change on the C6 neck. When I am using it with the equivalent 6th pedal (a knee lever on my guitar), that bottom B to C pull is in the way and messes up the chord.

So once again the master, has forgotten what we always tend to find out later.

God bless him and all of you,

carl

Huh? I think in #1 you meant to say:

The B pedal emulates the A to Bb pull on C6.

What chord does it ruin, Carl?

oops b0b you got me. You are correct. Now how did I ever do that.

Ok, when the equivalent 6th pedal is used with the B pedal, it is often common to strum the lower strings, and what you have is a 9th chord with a suspended 4th. This is OK in the treble register. But it messes up the bottom because you lose that all important 3rd note of the chord.

A similar thing takes place in the case of that 6th pedal and the augmented created by half pedalling A. It does not sound right to have that augmented in the bass register as well.

Or at least it doesnt to me. And from all indication, it doesnt with BE either, because he does not pull but one of them on all his four knee levers on his C neck.

carl

Carl, It's interesting that, whereas searches go on to EMBELLISH or extend the E9 tuning, most attempts on the C6 tuning are to CHANGE the standard. G or D on top? What to do with pedal 4? Put pedal 7 (or 5 or 6) on a knee lever? Put pedal 8 (boo-wah) on a knee lever? Remove pedal 8 altogether? Put a D string in the middle and remove the 10th string low C (a recent hot topic)? On pedal 5, lower of raise the high G string? And now your point, which is "should we pull the 8th string with the 4th string"? In fact, whereas the E9 pedal standard is 3+4, just what exactly is the D-10 C6 standard for knee levers - 1,2,3, or 4?. Anyway, just an observation about all of these continually open issues. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 26 June 2002 at 06:37 AM.]</p></FONT>

I think that the "standard" for C6th is the original 5+1 as outlined in Winnie Winston's book. But you're right, Jeff. A lot of people use D for the first string. The 3rd string C to C# raise has become very popular abong those who have the first string D, because it gives you the "fifth on top" inversion that was lost with the high G string.

So then we have 5+2. The A to Bb change is very popular among those who have a third knee lever. Here's where we run into problems, because many D-10's don't have left knee levers for the back neck. That's why it's hard to "standardize" anything beyond 5+2.

Consider the two "standard" levers on the right knee. They both work the third string - one lowers it to B and the other raises it to C#. Perhaps the reason that they don't work other strings is more ergonomic than musical. These levers also pull multiple strings on the front neck. Any additional changes might make the lever too stiff to use.

Back to Carl's original topic... Carl, on your U-12, do you gave a lever that lowers your middle G# to G (like Buddy's A to Ab)?

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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

b0b, that's what is so great about your Williams steel. You can have bunches of knees
(5) on each tuning. A pedal steel is great, but when you add the knees, they are really getting somewhere! A C6th with the "old" std
5 + 1 is a 2 foot tuning and the E9th is a one foot plus knees! Much more subtle stuff
there and that's what Buddy has done by adding the extra knees on the C6th.

Not presently b0b. BUT I will have it with the "switchover" system.

In deciding "what" changes I wanted, it was paramount that one very important "MUST" be considered. IE, since the switchover IS electromechanical, the possiblity of it malfuncioning exists. Even though every precaution has been taken to minimize it. But it still could.

Secondly, I wanted the basic copedent to have the "must" changes so as to NOT have to always be activating the switchover even when it was working right. In other words, use it ocassionaly when I want a particular change that is not used that much.

After years and years of studying 1000's of combinations, I found a way to do this for my tastes.

As such the lowering of the G#'s to G along with raising the middle and bottom G#'s to A# were considered to be NOT "musts". I COULD live without them. As I do now.

Along with the PF pedal and/or knee levers. Along with several of other things such as adding the lowering of the middle B to a Bb as it is on E9th necks.

So to summarize. I don't have the G#'s to G's now. But I love this change if and when it is needed. There is another subtle reason for this too.

Splitting the B pedal with lowering of 6 a whole tone is not normally a good minor IF, one wants it to sound good as an A7th. I don't like this.

By having yet another lever that would bring in the true minor sound affords the best of both worlds, IMO .

Take care. luv u man, And ALL the rest of you,

carl

BTW: Buddy did have me change the knee to raise both C's to C#. See the chart on: Buddy Info.

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

I have the P8 change on LKL, so that I don't need to raise middle C along with the high C. When I want them both, I use both levers. I often do this with P5, to get an A6th chord.

Carl, do I read correctly that you consider the A to B change (G# to A# on your U-12) "optional". To me it's one of the main features of the C6th.

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<small><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

<SMALL> consider the A to B change (G# to A# on your U-12) "optional". To me it's one of the main features of the C6th.</SMALL>

I use it enough that it's one of only 3 pedals on E9, and it's a knee lever on C6.

Yes b0b, the G# to A# change on strings 6 and 10 is the same as the 4th pedal on C6. It is by far the least used of all pedals on C6. Although, I use it probably more than most. But still, it did not get into the "must have" list.

Now the G# to A# change coupled with the B to C# change (pedal 7) is vital and I have that on the basic copedent.

With the switchovers, of course, I have it along with every other change I want. And then some. That of course, IS, the main reason for having the switchover.

It is simply impractical to achieve the changes I want without having to add more knee levers. Which I have no intentions of doing. 8 knee levers on a single neck is simply ENOUGH

carl