The Steel Guitar Forum

Recieved the guitar 1/31/02 finally changed the strings the other day and broke three
011's before i got one to hold to pitch. All
strings broke on the tuner shaft at the same spot every time. Finally the one that i didn't try to lock-loop held for me. The
Ernie Ball re-enforced 11's were popping like firecrackers. Never had that happen with my p/p. Have any of you Forumites had
this problem? Hope this isn't going to be
one of those recurring things with my guitar. TJH

there might be a small burr on the machine head feel it for smoothness...this is not normal for carter's if there is ...i'm sure that anne , john, or bud will surely help you...this i know

wayne
carter sd-10 nashville 1000<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Wayne Brown on 07 June 2002 at 08:19 PM.]</p></FONT>

Thurlon-Very unusual. I have had a couple of Carters, I have a D10 right now and never broke a 3rd string yet.

As Wayne suggested , you better check with Bud or John, they will tell you what to do about it.....al

If it's breaking at the gear, get a medium fine piece of sandpaper and a magnifier. Try not to sand through the plating or You'll be doing this more often as the string digs into the softer underneath metal.

Bob M.

Take a dry Q-tip swab and run it around the shaft and the eye. If there is a burr on there,even one too small to see,you should be able to feel the cotton fibers snagging on it.

Try putting more wraps on the shaft also. There was a thread a year ago or so about this, I have gone from about 5 wraps to about 10 warps seems to be working well. Check for burr fist.

Larry Behm

I always wrap about 5 inches of string on the tuning key (3rd string). That eliminates breaking at the key. The bend is too sharp around the hole and you need enough wraps to get the string coming off the key away from the hole. It is not that bad on the old Klusons but all the newer type keys seem to have this problem. It is not common to any guitar brand, just the keys that are now being used. I would not think much of trying to locate and remove a burr, but just use extra length of string for your 3rd string and the problem will end.
Jerry

Thurlon ,
I assume you are not letting any of the unwrapped strings overlap each other as you wind . That will also cause a bunch of breaks. Especially on the .011 guage ,as with all the other strings , wrap it past the hole in the shaft so that the last wrap you wind will put the string right at the spot on the shaft where the the shaft taper begins . This may require a lot more wraps than you have been doing in the past .

Another suggestion would be to always wrap unwrapped and wrapped strings on the tuning shaft so that the strings will come off the roller bridge in as STRAIGHT a line as possible to the shaft. This may require you to wrap certain strings to the INSIDE rather than toward the tuning key as you may have always done in the past .

I use S.I.T. stainless steel strings and change about once a month . I rarely , have string breakage on any guage and I play a bunch !

I think if you will use this and other suggestions you have received on this thread ,you will have less string breakage in the future .

Good luck !

John

Thurlon ... As others have stated above, most of the time we notice that when the string breaks at the tuning machine itself, that the player has not put enough wraps on the 3rd string.

John Fabian has created a slide show on The Steel Guitar Information Resource
<FONT SIZE=-2>( www.SteelGuitarInfo.com )</FONT> in the "How to Change Your Strings" section, which demonstrates a method you can use <FONT SIZE=-1>(See especially, this slide and the 2 slides following it):</FONT>

<CENTER><FONT SIZE=-2> http://steelguitarinfo.com/strings/changeslideshow/sld003.htm</FONT>
</CENTER>

Of course, the possibility of a burr does also exist and putting more wraps on can assist you to get away from the burr. If this does not work and you wish to locate the burr specifically, Larry Clark's suggestion is very good for detecting those types of burrs:

<SMALL>Take a dry Q-tip swab and run it around the shaft and the eye. If there is a burr on there,even one too small to see,you should be able to feel the cotton fibers snagging on it.</SMALL>

Hope this helps!

<FONT SIZE=-2>Ann Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars
617 West Kearney Street
Suite 101
Mesquite, Texas 75149 USA {next to DALLAS}

1-800-969-7332 orders (accessories and steels)
1-972-475-2324 international orders
1-972-288-9100 technical info
1-972-288-9169 FAX

www.SteelGuitar.com

The Steel Guitar Information Resource
www.steelguitarINFO.com

OnLine Steel Guitarists Directory
www.OnLineSteelers.com

Carter-Starter (beginner psg)
www.carterstarter.com

</FONT>

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Ann Fabian on 08 June 2002 at 07:42 AM.]</p></FONT>

All of the posts so far are correct. I will add this odd phenomenon, however.

When they first came out with Ernie Ball "reinforced" .011's, John Fabian was kind enough to give me 3 of them at a steel show. So I tried them. Oddly, the first two broke right at the key peg as I was bringing my Emmons LeGrande up to pitch.

I had never had a string break at this spot on any guitar I ever owned. So I thought, "this is odd. Why would they break there?" The third one went on and up to pitch ok.

I never tried any more reinforeced ones. But no other string I have ever tried has ever broken anywhere but right at the top of the changer. And of course, to my way of thinking, much TOO soon.

I have thought about that scenario many times. And until this thread, I always thought that maybe it was just bad strings. But now, I wonder.

If you haven't filed or sanded or wrapped more windings already, you might try a regular string to see if it also breaks at the key peg. Bet ya a nickle it doesn't

Carl

I dont think it's fair to say "string breaker" after the brand name of the guitar, If a string breaks at the tuner shaft, that has nothing to do with the guitar, regardlees of brand!

What Al said......Bill Ford

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I had a set of old Kluson Deluxe tuners on a guitar that used to break strings at the tuner post.

The cure was to remove the tuners and re-radius the holes in the tuning posts to get rid of the sharp bend.

That worked.



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Regards
-- Eugene@FJ45.com

I want to second what Mr. Dixon said. I have a Carter D-10, and bought a box of Ernie Ball strings (6 sets of E9, 3 sets of C6).

The first set I tried, the 3rd broke trying to get it to pitch. Got out another 3rd, and it broke too. I had a few GHS 11's I used for spares, so I put on one of those, no problem.

I haven't even tried any of the remaining Ernie Ball strings. I know they are good strings, but it just seems my guitar doesnt like them. Been using GHS or SIT lately, and I usually change them due to age, not breakage.

I would highly recommend trying a different brand before doing anything to the guitar..

Oh, one more thing.. When I bought the guitar, it came with Ernie Ball strings, and I broke the 3rd within minutes of setting it up..

FWIW

Tom

A good way to get rid of the burr, is to run the largest wrapped string that will go thru the hole back and forth several times. Jody.

Ive had the same trouble it made me so mad and still yet today i hate the thought of putting that third string on, but I found out it depends on the ball placement sounds weird but you almost have to have the ball going in on the changer flat if its turned the other way it will come unwound befor you get too pitch. this isnt right i had a 81 sho-bud for years that was easy to replace a string put it on wind it up step on the pedals onece or twice retune and that was it. i would have stilled had the old sho-bud if the body didnt move so much when you pressed pedals.

Someone once told me that Ernie Ball strings are factory rejects at manufacturing. It's just hear say, so I don't know. I will ad that , I had the same problem with them. Breaking left and right,so I stopped using them.No more problems.

Trurlon Hopper's apology was accidentally posted to a separate topic. I've closed that one, and copied his post from it below:

<SMALL>My apologies for not being more thorough in the last post. I love my new carter guitar and think that Ann and John are great folks to deal with. Al you are correct i should not have implied that the Carter guitar was a defective instrument far from it. And my heartfelt thanks to all of you for your input on changing strings. Really needed it as i am accustomed to the old Klusons. The keys on the Cater are much smoother and easier to tune. Thanks again for the advice and i will try your suggestions. TJH</SMALL>

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/coolb0b2.gif" border="0"><small>               Bobby Lee</small>
-b0b-   <small> quasar@b0b.com </small>
-System Administrator<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by b0b on 11 June 2002 at 10:20 AM.]</p></FONT>

My Carter absolutely never breaks strings, so you can imagine how surprised I was when I broke all 6 Ernie Ball reinforced .011s from a new pack, one after the other, trying to put them on. Never happened before or since. Just a bad bunch, I'm sure.

I now use only Jagwires.

Is this weird or what? Several years ago when the Ernie Ball reinforced .011's came out, a dealer in Illinois gave me 4 of them to try. One lasted about 2 days and snapped at the changer. The other 3 broke at the tuning key shaft before I could get them up to pitch. Well, so much for that. Needless to say I didn't buy any more of those.

Like Don Walters, I now use only Jagwire strings and endorse them wholeheartedly for steel guitar, 6-string guitar (hold their brightness "forever"), and dobro. I use their nickel wound strings. They's GOOD strings, hoss. None better IMHO.

Tim R.

A trick that Jeff Newman showed me is to thread the string through the hole, wrap it a couple of times then pull the string away from you towards the front of the guitar until the string winds up on the big part of the shaft towards the key. believe me, it really works.They may break from wear but the will usually break on the changer end and not on the tunning dey shaft.
Not my experience talking, it's Jeff Newman"s and he usually is right about things that cause problems in playing, tuning,etc. Hell, he's usually right about everything he talks about. Don't that just stump your toe?????????????

Jeff

Jeff- Yes,and after that you can guide it back to a straight line with the nut. I have been doing that and it works for me. I used GHS. Sits, and Jagwires and had pretty good luck with them.....al