Dual Showman Reverb Tone Controls help!

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Hey folks,
I didn't want to completely hi-jack the Twin Reverb Thread so I started this one.

I just purchased a '68 Dual Showman Reverb Head so the experimenting begins!

My question is, how do the tone controls work? I.E., are they passive or are they inter-related(active?)? Ive been using Nashville series amps for the past 30 years so I'm a complete novice at working with the Fender tube amps.

Also, do the bass/treble, etc. controls have frequency specs like my NV112? In other words: how does the bass control compare to the 45Hz shelved function of the Low knob of the NV112? What frequency is the Treble, etc..??

Another question, would it be worth it to use any of the Tone Stack Calculators that I've seen on line to learn how the controls relate to each other?

Finally, I noticed some of the settings provided for the Twin Reverb in the other thread. I plan to try them. Since the Twin Reverb and the Dual Showman Reverb are supposed to be "identical" please share any settings that you are using for E9th pedal steel.

NOTE: I plan to use a Weber box to switch between the DSR Head and the NV112 into the stock NV112 Speaker to conduct side by side comparisons, and just experiment with them so any coaching/input is welcomed.

Thanks for your feedback, coaching, and help!.
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Tom Wolverton · From: Carpinteria, CA

The Twin Reverb settings should basically work. I like: Bright switch off, Treble and Bass about half way and Middle way up. A lot depends on the room and the speaker cab you are running. I like single 15" , Rick Johnson cabinets. Been running a single 15" Telonics neo and love it.
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Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Thanks Tom! I can't wait to get it and experiment!

Other input?
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Why did Moon say to turn everything to 10 and control with the volume pedal?
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Frankly, I'm not good at figuring things out by trial and error. I'm better at knowing how the circuitry works and then going for it.

Thanks for any help/explanations......cause it will save me allot of time.....

My best to all,
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Stephen Cowell · From: Round Rock, Texas, USA

if you haven't played with this:

http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/

... it's an eye opener... have fun!
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Too much junk to list... always getting more.

Bill L. Wilson · From: Oklahoma, USA

I have an Emmons LeGrande II, and set my Twin at, 5Vol. 4Treb. 8Mid. 8Bass. w/ Bright switch ON. With 2 JBL-D120F speakers, it sounds good to me. Good Luck.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

The link Steve posted is your joy.

The Fender tone stack has a sweeping midrange cut, moving from about 1200Hz to 300Hz as the treble control is increased from full off to full on. A few minutes with the visual tone stack calculator will make this relationship clear.

Chris Rice · From: Illinois, USA

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Thanks guys!! I really appreciate the help!!

Let the experiment/journey begin....
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I have a '70 Dual Showman Reverb.
Another thing you can do is, run both channels.
You go from Steel to Volume pedal, then plug into Channel 1 (Normal), input 1. Then run a short jumper cord from Channel 1, input 2, to Channel 2 (Vibrato), input 1.

As long as you avoid having both volumes at the same exact level, you now have all the knobs on the amp working to tailor your tone.

Because the Channels are out-of-phase, when you have the volumes at the same level, you get what's called "Phase "Cancellation", which make the volume decrease and tone become thin and nasel-ee.

You could also have someone like Ken Fox mod your amp to have Reverb on both channels, which puts both channels in-phase with each other.
Ken also does a tone-stack mod to make the Amp more Steel friendly.

In my own experimentation, Speakers can make a huge difference in tone.
Some of the JBL's I've tried were too treble-ee for Steel but sounded great with a Tele or Strat.
At some point you will probably want to pick up a 15" and/or 12" cab to test-fire speakers and gig with.

Chris Rice · From: Illinois, USA

Modifying the amp to have both channels through the effects puts them in phase, but you lose the stock tone of the normal channel, which I like for aggressive lap steel more than the reverb channel.

John Dowden · From: Louisiana, USA

Murnel redid my old Dual Showman Reverb a while back and put reverb on both channels, he also (at my request) modded the normal channel to be voiced like a Super Reverb.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

If you don't want to mod the amp, you could also run a Phase-Inverter in-line on one channel.
Here is a pedal designed to put both channels in-phase:
http://www.barberelectronics.com/LaunchPad.htm
"Two outputs that represent both + and - phase. This feature allows phase correcting Blackface and Silverface Fender amps, also you will be able to combine the channels for ultra flexibility and combined harmonics of parallel preamps."

Stephen Cowell · From: Round Rock, Texas, USA

There's another trick, the 'Ken Metcalf' mod... use an RCA to 1/4" adapter and run the output of the reverb tank back into your Normal channel... now you've got complete control of the reverb tone! Credit Ken for this one.
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Too much junk to list... always getting more.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

I'm really enjoying the discussion!!
_________________
RETIRED
Former steel guitarist for Tracy Byrd & The Byrd Dawgs, Mark Chesnut & The New South Band, Mark Nesler & Texas Tradition, Wayne Toups & ZydeCajun, Belton Richard & The Musical Aces

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Reverb "Pre-Delay" on Dual Showman Reverb (and similar Fender Amp models) test done!
It works!

I put an RCA to 1/4" adapter on the Reverb Return, and ran it into a Delay pedal (the Delay-only setting #2 on a Boss RV-3, with delay time knob at 12 o'clock).
I ran the output of the Delay pedal to Input 1 on the Normal Channel of my Dual Showman Reverb head.

I can now control the time between when I play the note, and when the Reverb begins!
Nice!

And you can also taylor the tone of the reverb quite a bit by experimenting with inputs 1 or 2, bright switch on or off, and the treble/middle/bass knob settings.

I have been experimenting with the Reverb knob on the amp between 3.5 and 10, and Mix on the Delay pedal between 50%-100% wet.
Alot of variation is possible.

I use another Reverb unit that has "Pre-Delay" as a standard feature (Lexicon LXP-1), and I like the sound of the dry note itself preceeding the onset of reverb.
Now I/we can achieve that using the onboard Reverb of Fender amps.
Cool. Surprised

I'm still not sure if the Reverb is in or out of Phase with the primary signal, but with the Delay separating the primary signal from the reverb'd signal, it doesn't matter (at least that's what I think so far, I have a phase-inverter around here somwhere that I will try, it's a feature on an ART Tube-Pac unit).

Gary Cosden · From: Florida, USA

I have a non reverb Dual Showman and I find it surprisingly effective to run 1 out from my volume pedal to channel 2 and the other out from my volume pedal through a reverb pedal to channel 1. Great tone control on the reverb and as much dry as you want.

Stephen Cowell · From: Round Rock, Texas, USA

On non-reverb Fenders the channels are in phase... on reverb models, there is an extra inverting buffer, so the channels are out of phase. As Pete noted, there's not much difference, since a phase difference is much less time difference than either reverb or delay... the signal didn't stand a chance of cancellation anyway.
_________________
Too much junk to list... always getting more.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Having slept on it, I'm thinking it might be better to delay the signal going to the Input of the Reverb tank, which I'm guessing would just be a dry signal.
Unfortunately, I have to work today so maybe tonight.

Stephen Cowell · From: Round Rock, Texas, USA

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Thanks!!!
I had no idea.

Running the Return to the Normal Channel worked out great, though. Glad I picked up on that one.
Thanks, Ken M. and you too Stephen.
Smile

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