The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 2:42 am**

A young person showed up at a Jam with a cheap single neck PSG. It was crowded and he just barely had room to set up between two shinny new expensive PSGs.
He got finished setting up and then went to the bathroom and when he got back he miraculously had 4 feet of space on either side.

The message seems to be â€œPony up the money Kid or donâ€™t even think about playing PSGâ€œ

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 6:35 am**

When I started playing in the early nineties, I went to a steel seminar in Holland. Later at night in the pub I sat around with other steel players and when I told them that I had an ABM steel, I noticed wrinkles building up on their foreheads. I thought to myself what an arrogant bunch. But a few years later, when I got another steel I knew they had been right.

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 7:10 am**

Harsh to judge the instrument before you've heard the player, but money has to be the obstacle to most youngsters getting started. (I don't think it's anything do with musical styles. Young people want to be different and as soon as something becomes uncool, after a due period of mourning it starts to become cool again.)
At age 40 I could afford an old twin-neck that didn't work and by 60 I'd found the time to fix it up and start learning. If I'd had the money when I first got fascinated at 20 I could have been some player, judging by the success I've had on affordable instruments like trombone and bass. (Or I could have been rich, bought something shiny, and discovered I actually had no talent for it at all!)

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 7:21 am**

It's a difficult instrument to start up with. You can get a decent six-string guitar for a couple hundred bucks, but you can't get much of a steel for less than a grand. My first steel was a Carter Starter. It actually sounded good, but was so finicky and cheap feeling that you couldn't reliably gig with it. Still, it was all I had.

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 7:48 am**

Bo, it might have also been less hating on the gear than not wanting to be next to the n00b.
Neither are really helpful: when I first met Johnny Cox (he was with Ernest Tubb playing the Montgomery County Fair in Maryland, in either 80 or 81) and I talked to him, when I told him I was playing on a borrowed student model (if 1980: by 81 I had a pull-release Marlen), he invited me to sit behind his Zum on their break.
THAT is how to welcome the n00b with inadequate gear.
Johnny has a fan for life in me.

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 8:42 am**

Last year I went to a two day instructional seminar. The experience levels of the participants varied from from raw beginner to decades of playing time. Steels ranged from "student" models to expensive D-10s and a 12 string universal. By the end of the second day, beginners were trying out D-10s and experienced players were sitting behind student model guitars. No one put down anybody because of the brand of equipment or skill levels. The instructors even offered to let us play through their equipment, which consisted of a couple of very nice steels and comparable rack and speaker systems. It was a great experience.

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 2:42 pm**

The pedal steel is catching on with a younger generation. Probably not as much as It could be. I think the real obstacle is money. I know a young fellow who is starting to play now only because he picked up a maverick for $2.50 at a goodwill. He was working when it came in.

I record 30-50 contemporary acts every month for the last 5.5 years. But in the indie scene the pedal steel is showing up more and more. I probably see 3 to 4 pedal steel come through every month at least.

It's coming back, just not where you would expect it.

I wish I could find people my age who want to play the real honky-tonk. That's pretty non existent.

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 3:03 pm**

Ian Rae wrote:Harsh to judge the instrument before you've heard the player, but money has to be the obstacle to most youngsters getting started.

I don't believe that for a minute. In a time when $600 IPads and $400 cell phones are commonplace among the younger set, it's stretching it to say they can't come up with money.

There are plenty of decent "learning class" steels available for under $1000. (Currently at least 6 on ebay...not counting a couple Red Baron/Sidekick models.) It's simply a question of priorities.

IMHO, the problem is that is simply that it's really hard to play. Face it, these kids can master any computer game or technology gadget in a month or two, but it takes the majority of newer players a couple of years before they're even remotely comfortable on the pedal steel. You see dozens upon dozens of prodigies under 10 years old on piano, straight guitar, violin, and most other instruments, as well.

When's the last time you were flabbergasted and amazed by an 8 year-old pedal steeler? $:\$

How many pedal steelers (you know, those guys that own good pedal steels) have children that become accomplished players?

Nope, sorry. I don't believe it's a "money thing".

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 3:13 pm**

In 2003, I went to the Southern Steel Guitar Convention, and took my first steel-a beginner's 1974 Emmons to the show and the purpose of it being there was to get new strings put on, and a man in the room thought I was lettin' it go and I told him it just needed new strings. He seemed to like my steel- I played it in 2004 at the very first show I played the next year and then, the next show I did, I had my doubleneck GFI "Redgold Beauty" with me, and everybody was amazed! That happened for five years-2004-2009, then I took my newest steel "Black Diamond," my Jackson Blackjack Custom to a show for the first time and everybody was amazed! Even two younger players, Jonathan Cullifer and Austin Tripp were amazed, and so was its' builder, David Jackson of the Jackson Steel Guitar Company. And, everybody at my church was amazed by the Blackjack Custom and even the younger people at my church are amazed at how it looks and sounds

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 3:15 pm**

I just talked to the mother of my 7 yr old granddaughter. Jen, her mom, wants me to try Chloe on steel, so does Chloe so here we go. I'll have to cut down the legs and rods on old Red and line her up with a buddy who can do video lessons with her. Exciting stuff!!

Anyone know where I can get hold of finger and thumb picks for skinny little fingers?

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 3:51 pm**

My first steel was a pretty little maple Maverick with polished end-plates, 3 pedals and no knees at all. I bought it from my boss at the music store and played it for 15 years. More than one bandleader intending to hire me changed their mind when they found out I didn't have "a real steel guitar," but I never had another musician give me negative marks for it. One of the only other steel pickers I knew at the time, John Lacey, once told me "you can really play, you need to get a real guitar" and my reply was that I was still learning new stuff every day on the instrument I had, and that the tunes we were covering at the time were played by guys with no pedals at all. I couldn't afford a new guitar anyway....

In my mid-thirties I managed to trade some other guitars for a brand-new S10 Pro-I with 3+2 that had been sitting in the window of a local music store for nearly ten years. I played that for nearly 20 years before finally adding a fully-equipped (8+5) D10 to the stable. During that time I played with a handful of really great artists and a boatload of very fine musicians, and nary was heard a discouraging word.

It's music after all, and nobody who matters is keeping score. We all have plenty to learn and work to do to keep what chops we may already have, the ones who really care are much too busy thinking about their own challenges to dis the new kids around them....

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 4:41 pm**

still big in nashville i bet . out here in cali its a bit thinner .. when i started I bought
a LDG used from a store that just had it on consignment that was 1971 and i play out with a lot of young bands here in the SF bay area .. most of the newer steelers
are working in alt country or alt rock bands and not making any money .. part of the problem is it takes a lot of time and money to learn steel when anyone can pick up a guitar and play for 15 bucks a night . those of us who play steel regularly usually won't go out for less than 50 a night if its within 30 miles and 100 if its way out there ... anyway most bands can't afford a steel player ..

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 6:53 pm**

My take on all of this is VERY different than the opinions I have read from all our good friends here.. Its simple.. Most young kids don't like most of the music the pedal steel guitar is associated with.. Its mostly rap, heavy metal or Lady GaGa/ Justin Beiber type stuff out there for kids under 20 or so... In southern states ""modern country"" is popular with some youth as well, but in all honesty, they won't get much exposure to pedal steel there either.. Even rock guitar music is starting to fade away from the modern pop music world.. its all about how "hot" looking the performer is... bob

Posted: **6 Jan 2014 11:38 pm**

I've been amazed by the pedal steel guitar since I was nine. I learned about what a steel guitar was while watching a Ricky Skaggs video in the eighties called "Don't Get Above Your Raisin', which featured Bruce Bouton in the video. I asked my aunt Denise what that instrument was that looked like a table and she said, "it's the steel guitar" and I was amazed! I first saw a steel guitar live onstage at Myrtle Beach, South Carolina at the Carolina Opry in 1989, and sat in front of it. It was played by a steel player named Myron Smith, although I didn't know many players back then, I knew I loved the steel guitar and still do today

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 2:19 am**

I think Michael Douchette has done more for PSG as it relates to young people than Robert Randolph.
Michael Douchette made it cool to play a $900 PSG.

Robert Randolph even went so far as to cover up the the lower priced Carter Brand Name on a PSG he used on his show.

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 3:24 am**

Bo Legg wrote: Robert Randolph even went so far as to cover up the the lower priced Carter Brand Name on a PSG he used on his show.

Interesting choice of words ! I never knew that RR did that because it was a lower priced Instrument.

Oh and just for the record, my 2004 D10 Carter, 9+8 , list price was around $4200 I did buy it used for just under $3000.

So possibly, lower priced is subjective, no ? $4200 is certainly lower than $5000...

I suspect Mikey is playing a Zum Sage One not because it is kool to play a $900 guitar, (by the way they sell new for over $1100)but rather, many of us ( me too ) would rather play a much lighter more compact instrument on shows. Now if he sold all of his other Steels because the $900 Steel was better, now we have a subject to talk about with regard to price.

The simple fact of the matter is, even at $900, that is a lot of money for a young entry player compared to a Fender Squire Tele or Strat , which are very playable, in the under $300 range. A young player can grab one of those, learn a couple of chords and be playing a Beatle song by the end of the day. Then start of a career !

And you know I'm right because half the country singers we have played with in our Steel guitar lives can pretty much still only play 3 or 4 guitar chords even 20 or 30 years after they started !

My musical journey started with an under $50 Stella Guitar, imagine if I wanted a Pedal Steel back then for $1000, I'm pretty certain my mother would have come home with the Stella , regardless of what I wanted.

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 3:25 am**

you can't run around the stage and shake your butt while you're playing a PSG. Most steelers stare down at the instrument and don't relate to the audience at all.

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 3:40 am**

To mangle The Big Lebowski (badly) - "Say what you will of the knee levers on a Carter Starter, Dude, at least it's an instrument."

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 6:12 am**

Younger people are not as interested in Jazz standards, 40 year old show tunes, orchestrated productions, that are commonly emulated with steel guitar.
The image of steel guitar is a old guys instrument through a young persons eyes.
If you would think back to when you were 18 and picture a 60 year old man and the musical tastes of the two generations has a pretty wide spread.
It is even more so now that rock has died and fused into country.
I am surprised how many people say to me wow a steel guitar I haven't seem one of those in long time and I live in steel guitar mecca.
Say what you will about new country and it is not really my cup of tea but it is about good looking youth and excitement... same as pop music has pretty much always been. Every 15-20 years things rolling being classics and people sit around saying they don't write them like they used to. Over and over and over.

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 7:48 am**

^^^ I think Ken nailed most of it. Kids just aren't into the steel guitar kind of music. Sure, you can play anything a pedal steel, but it just dosen't seem to happen.

For me, the price of a steel guitar was an obsticle at first. Basically, I had to wait till I made more money. I knew I wanted a D-10...no single neck for me. Once I started looking and found a good, name brand D-10 was 3-5K, it was a bit discouraging. I ended up with a '69 ZB D-10 that I bought locally for $1200. It worked fine, and I learned on it.

Next, I traded some stuff for an MSA classic S-10 in White Tide wood. Of course, it worked fine, but it sounded mediochre, and it was a real ugly duck. I cleaned it up and sold it.

Eventually, a Mulled RP came and went (best guitar, if you ask me) and a '74 PP... Which is staying (that sound!) The ZB departed, and now a S-12 E9th/C6th Excel Superb calls my house home.

The rest is history. But I've found that part of the pleasure of the instrument is the mechanical aspect of the guitars. A shiny, mica'd, polished D-10 with 10 + 10 is a sight to behold. Wait till you hear it.

Buying steel guitars taught me how to spen 4K on a guitar. After the firtst one, it becomes easy.

BUT! To get back to the original point, that's a problem for a newb. Alot of guys want a nice guitar to start, and that's a hindrance. Part of playing the steel (to me) is sitting behind that bad-a##ed horn, knowing it's shine, it's polished metal and it's mechanical fortitude has got your musical back.

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 7:58 am**

The two biggest problems I see are "distractions and exposure." Nowadays the younger kids are born into a digital world. It's all video games, IPads, IPods, cell phones, instead of things related to the instrument. Music has changed ( and not for the better ) so the steel guitar doesn't show up on the TV shows or radio like it did for us. There is no "Pop goes the country" or Hee Haw to get those kids excited about the sound and the instrument that makes it. Night clubs are far fewer and what bands that are left rarely use a steel guitar. It's a lot of "Out of sight... Out of mind" Add in the fact that the newer country very rarely uses steel guitar and that's the nail in the coffin. We just have to do our best to keep up the fight and continue to share our love for the instrument with the younger audience... and hope!

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 8:48 am**

Why isn't PSG catching on with the youth?

It's catching on with the youth real fine, Bo - you just don't know any!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbt8AmsCBgE

(and it's O.K., Bo - they wouldn't like you either!)

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 8:55 am**

There are +150 artists in this list, new artists, average -> good -> great. When you've listened to all 150 and you still know they all suck, ask the question again.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208507

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 10:30 am**

One problem is that most people dont know what it is.When I started playing like nobody really knew what it was at all.Ive heard mine be compared to keyboards and everything else.Its too easy to go to the local music store and buy a cheap guitar rather than look for a steel guitar and buy all the things that typically are used with it such as a volume pedal and pac a seat and a proper amp.

Posted: **7 Jan 2014 12:03 pm**

Tony Prior wrote:
Bo Legg wrote: Robert Randolph even went so far as to cover up the the lower priced Carter Brand Name on a PSG he used on his show.

Interesting choice of words ! I never knew that RR did that because it was a lower priced Instrument.

Oh and just for the record, my 2004 D10 Carter, 9+8 , list price was around $4200 I did buy it used for just under $3000.

So possibly, lower priced is subjective, no ? $4200 is certainly lower than $5000...

(unquote) What would an Emmons D10 9 and 8 be priced at.
My comment was not a slam on a Carter I would be proud to play one. My comment was meant as a price comparison and price ego.

Tony Prior wrote: I suspect Mikey is playing a Zum Sage One not because it is kool to play a $900 guitar, (by the way they sell new for over $1100)

(Unquote) I have to be honest and say I would have never considered a Stage One had I not read and heard Michael. My back mostly and the price because I could now leave it in the club for those multi-nite gigs without worrying about how devastating it would be if someone ripped it off during the night.

The Stage One is moving on up in price because Pros are playing it and they keep crying about it's not an all pull it needs more knees it need this or it should have that till the manufacturer caves and then it gets pushed up in price which will effect a young persons ability to buy it. If you wanted all that stuff you should have purchase something else. The Stage One was what it was and it should have stayed that way and maintained the low price

The Steel Guitar Forum

Why isn't PSG catching on with the youth?

Why isn't PSG catching on with the youth?

younger steelers