The Steel Guitar Forum

Hello all,

I am seeking advice on upgrading my steel. I got a nice machine, a pedalmaster "general" sd 10. The guitar is extremely comfortable for me at this point but the tone seems to be lackluster. I got a steel driver III by goodrich and that def. helped, but I still can't seem to get the tone that I'm seeing on instructional videos and recordings.

How much of the steel guitar is the pickup and how much is the body? If I swap out the pickup with a nicer one will that bring me closer to my desired sound?

I currently have a George L E-66, can anyone give feedback on this pickup? and/or reccomend a better one?

Thnx
Jon

Jon, I have owned a lot of different guitars with a lot of different pickups. Over the years, I have found that I like the E-66 on most guitars. I have them on a Derby, a Rittenberry and a Desert Rose right now. I have tried other pickups on these guitars, I like the E-66. There are a lot of things that contribute to the sound. Amps, volume pedals, cords, effects and more probably. If you are not using a good amp, you won't get the best sound. I mostly use the GK-MB 200 with either a 12" or 15" speaker cab, or a Nashville 112. I use a Digitech RP155 for effects, and , Hilton volume pedal. Change any of these, and I probably would have some second thoughts on the sound I hear. To get to the point, it's probably not the pickup that is making you question the sound you are getting. Take a look at your other gear, and see if there is something else that will make you happier. Good luck.

The E-66 is a smooth, well balanced pickup, it would be hard to go wrong with that. If you still don't get the sound you seek the solution will be found in your hands and not the hardware.

Bill Moore wrote:Take a look at your other gear, and see if there is something else that will make you happier. Good luck.

Agreed.

It's hard to discuss tone because it's subjective, but you described it as 'lackluster.' I take that to mean it lacks highs? If that's the case it probably isn't the pickup. The E-66 is the brightest pickup George L makes.

If you need more high-end than that, look to your amp or other things your chain. Or possibly you need to raise the height of the pickup... or use finger picks if you're using bare fingers... or move your hand to the right and pick closer to the pickup. It's hard to say without being in the room with you and your gear. Start with the EQ on your amp

My concern with the E-66 lies with its envelope rather than its tone. At least I THINK I blame envelope.
It lacks "bite" and compresses "personality," for lack of a better word.
I yanked my E-66 from the front neck of my Zum to drop in a TrueTone. I've been happy.
My MSA 12 had an E-66, I replaced it with a TrueTone and wasn't satisfied, too bright (seriously: I couldn't use the same amp settings as my Zum without peeling paint and calling dogs), but the responsiveness was better.

that's gonna be one lumpy envelope with an e-66 in it!

Jon - Is there someone who can play your guitar to check that it's OK? Usually I find that students with the problem you describe have poor bar handling.

Truth in Dave's word. If you're a newer player, a bit more bar pressure and a crisper attack with the fingerpicks can get better tone.

I have the same guitar as you, and I replaced my E-66 with the Telonics 84 pickup and love it!

I have been hearing lately that a Bill Lawrence 705 is a brighter toned pickup...and then I've heard a BL 710 is the suggested way to go...I have a George Ls on my Desert Rose and like the tone but as most am looking for better...any comments?...jr

I have BL 705's in my MSA and I like them just fine...I can play my Dads Carter with the Goeorge L's through my rig and with a little adjusting get pretty close to the same tone. The MSA is a 70's guitar and the Carter was built in the 90's.(Dont know how mauch that has to do with it) I have found that the amp and effects units have more to do with tone than the pup's themselves; as long as its a quality pup you should be able to dial up something to work with JMHO.

I swapped an E66 for a BL 705, albeit the black surround one, and found it much better.
Can I ask, respectfully, when you last changed the strings?

Jon, generally, I find the amp and how it is set has far more effect on tone and sound than the pickup does. Post your amp and the settings you use, and we can make better recommendations. No guitar or pickup will sound good through a crappy amp, or one that is not set properly. I'm not crazy about the E-66 myself, but I have a feeling that's not where your problem lies.

I thought I read that your fellow Brooklynite Jon Light gave lessons. I bet some in-person time with a veteran player would help more, and cost less, than a new pickup.

I have a Pedalmaster 4 Star General. When I got it it had a George L E-66 in it and like you was not crazy about the tone. I installed a Wallace Truetone and have been super happy with my tone...

If the PM was mine, I think I would probably check every nut/bolt/screw on it to make sure there all tight. Especially with the keyhead and the changer. Next would probably be a new set of Live Steel Strings. The E66, I'm not a fan of but I did have a S-10D Magnum 5 or 6 years ago that really sounded good with an E66. I hadn't tried any of the Telinocs(sp?) pu's yet but my favorite George L is the 10-1. The way a guitar is built has a lot to do with the tone/sustain. Sound transfer is the thing to look for. Tightness of the bolts securing the neck to the body needs to be looked at also.

Joe Rouse wrote:I have been hearing lately that a Bill Lawrence 705 is a brighter toned pickup...and then I've heard a BL 710 is the suggested way to go...I have a George Ls on my Desert Rose and like the tone but as most am looking for better...any comments?...jr

If you find you like the basic character of your amp or pickup situation, but want a little more low end or just a touch of treble, or maybe your mids are just not there, a decent eq pedal can get you there. Some people like to swap out pickups and speakers, mod this or that,for the smallest changes, but I don't. If your basic sound is fine, but you want a little bump in this or that direction, a graphic or parametric EQ can satisfy that little itch really well, and save you a lot of time and money. I don't recommend an EQ to overhaul your sound, just to give you a little flexibility with what is already working well for you. You also might find days that you don't turn it on at all. Its funny how our ears interpret things day to day.

Thank you Daniel...jr

Jon,

I'm out in Queens, and have several pedal steels and an array of amps. If you want to stop by my studio some time and do a listening test with some different gear, just let me know.

Jon,
I looked at your facebook pictures and saw a couple issues. You tend to hold your right elbo out which puts your fingers in an awkward position. Relax your shoulder and elbo and get more pick on the string. Another thing is you seem to pick too close to the bridge. Are you resting your wrist on the steel body or bridge ? That can really mess your tone up.(and cause major damage to your hands) Try picking half way between wherever your bar is and the bridge. You should be able to get the tone you want from the gear you have. Find Gerald Menke or John Widgren and have them show you.

Could be you are clutching the bar to hard also. The bar should be relaxed yet precise in your hand like a violin bow.

I would not spend another minute or thought on equipment until you get with Gerald or John. I make pickups and honestly a different pickup or different gear will not help you at all.

What Bob said. The biggest eye opener I ever had was when I started lessons. Hearing someone else play my steel showed me that everything I wanted was already there, I just had to learn how to get it.