The Steel Guitar Forum

O.K., here is another newbie question...
I have some instructional material from Jeff Newman, Herby Wallace, etc and almost all of the material shows you to pick 2 strings to comprise the chords/licks/runs not 3 even though some documents and such I've read says that a particular chord can be made using 3,4,5 or 4,5,6 or 5,6,8.

My question: Is what one hears on recordings usually played with 2 strings or 3? What would be an example when one would play say, 4,5,6 as opposed to just 5,8? What is used more frequently.

I appreciate everyone's help and comments.

Thanx,


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Bill Sampler
Mullen SD12 Universal 7/5

Bill,

I'm pretty much an advanced beginner myself.
The answer is "yes". Depends on what I'm trying to do.
In the early learning stages I've found that learning 2-note chords is easier, especially for playing the melody lines and fills.
You will find yourself then using a third note, occasionally, for chord definition (ie. a seventh , diminished, or augmented note. I've noticed that Jeff Newman's stuff is tabbed out like that, as a general rule.

Don't forget that one-note runs and fills can be extremely effective if played well.
Sometimes these can sound better than chords.

I'll use a lot of 3-note chords when I'm comping. These chords can be played as one pluck, strum, or as an arpegio. All can be effective, depending on the circumstances.

In any case, I've learned to Keep It Simple.
Simple and good is way better than complicated and sloppy.

There are plenty of folks more experienced and knowledgeable than I. They will respond here soon. This is just MY perspective as a fellow newbie.

Good luck and best wishes,
Tony<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Orth on 08 May 2002 at 10:25 AM.]</p></FONT>

Tony,

You have great wisdom when it comes to this thread's topic.

Jeff Newman's 'oft quoted, "Less is more" is very appropos here I believe.

When soloing by yourself, it is better to "finish the chord" in many instances. However, when playing in a band, two notes is often better than 3 (or more).

Reason: That third or more notes is often being played by some other band member. And to the listening audience it tends to blend better if there isn't too much duplication.

Listen to BE or PF closely and you will often hear just two notes throughout the song from their playing. And believe it or not, it is often perceived that they are playing 3 notes. The fullness we here comes from their tone and touch.

Try this sometimes. Use strings 5 and 8. Try to play entire songs just using these two strings. By combining pedals and/or knee levers this can be done with great expression and flow. Then try the same thing using just strings 3 and 5 or 5 and 6, etc.

With much practice and "heart" this can be the difference between a polished player and "HOG" the show type of player

One prime example is the greatest break (as many feel) ever. That is the break on "Together Again" by Tom Brumley. Most of the notes were JUST on strings 3 and 5! And how this has affected soooo many players. Truly a classic piece of playing and sooooo good for Buck's voicings.

God bless you in your quest,

carl

Carl,

Thank you for that compliment. I'm going to work on the 5th/8th string combination, as you suggest. I already use the 3rd/5th and the 5th/6th quite a bit.
We newbies greatly appreciate all that you experienced players share with us. It's a wonderful "family".

Tony<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Orth on 08 May 2002 at 11:30 AM.]</p></FONT>

Tony,

For an advanced “beginner”, I agree that you showed a lot of wisdom in your post. Do you suppose Tony is really a better player than he is letting on??!! That was about as accurate an answer as anyone could give.

The one single thing I have learned over the years is that there is no ONE thing that works in all situations. The advice on two note chords and runs from Jeff, Herby and others is very sound. If I am not mistaken (And I certainly have been before!), one of the things that Buddy Emmons has always done very effectively is the “two note” chord, or run. However, as Tony points out there are times when you want that third note. There are other times when single note runs will work to your best advantage.

It really comes down to “Where am I in the tune, and what do I do at this point to add the most to what the band is playing?” Learn all the different techniques, and then spend you time trying to figure out where to put them!

B. Bailey Brown

I use 1 or 2 strings when I'm playing lead lines, 3 or 4 strings when I'm comping rhythm.

"There's a time and place for everything", so the old saying goes. And so it is with chord voicings. (A while back, someone here said technically, 'ya gotta have 3 notes for a chord. Two notes is just an interval, not a chord.) I don't know about that, but I do know that I wouldn't advise anyone to play just 2-string chords. While they are versatile and "fit" in certain songs, and are great for backup work, and work real good in twin stuff, I think that when the time comes to play a solo, you'd better grab some 3-note chords, or it's going to start sounding thin and repetitive. Do we have all these these strings and pedals just to play 2-note chords??? I don't think so. It sure seems like a waste not to use what you have, at least occasionally.

Wanna hear how good it sounds? Just listen to the opening cut on the "Northern Steel" CD. That cut alone is worth the price of the CD! Bob Lucier's version of "Lonesome 7-7203" just jumps right out at you! Man, what a nice sound...full fat chords, perfect intonation...nothing thin or whiney about that song!

Full 3 and 4 note chords add so much to the sound...if you don't take advantage of them once in awhile, you'll be missing out on the beauty and capability of the instrument.

And so will your audience.

Both..Depends on the tune, the phrase etc..
Like mentioned above , comping chords generally call for three notes , which I many times take off the 10th string and at times off the 9th string for variations. Fill and passing phrases may sound better and fit better with a two note chord..It really depends on what else is happening at the moment. Sometimes no chord ( silence) is better than any chord ! And don't forget Jeff Newmans famous words " Now that you've learned to play, learn when not to play" !

Excellent comments above..

tp
TPrior/SteelGuitarHomesite<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 09 May 2002 at 03:44 AM.]</p></FONT>

Excellent example Donny. While you've got the "Northern Steel" CD out, cue up "Kindly Keep It Country" by Doug Johnson.

That tune starts with single and double notes, them after a modulation, he plays the melody with thick sounding three note chords.
Very effective!


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 08 May 2002 at 06:54 PM.]</p></FONT>

You don't even need pedals to play 2-note lines! "Together Again" is a classic example. It can be played note-perfect on a lap steel.

I was up in Canada and saw Bob Lucier play two weeks ago. His tone and touch on that Fulawka is fabulous! Some of that Northern Steel band were playing with him.

For full chords, open voicings sound the biggest. On E9 these would be strings 3, 5, and 8 together or strings 4, 6, and 10 together. These are triads but one note is taken from the middle of the inversion and raised (or lowered) one octave. String, vocal, and horn arrangements use this principal. On C6 the formulas change but the principal remains the same.

I think it depend!! I have always used a combination of single string solo notes,intervals and triads. I believe the
most beautiful steel instrumentals use
a mix of all three. I am a real believer
in some single string notes, and I don't mean
in a fast song. I like triads sometimes for ending a line, but probably play more intervals than anything else.
just me 2 cents worth...

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It's been my humble experience that when
playing up passed the 12th fret,it's a lot easier playing in tune using 2 strings than
3 strings.Sometimes 1 string sounds great
especially when John Huey plays a single note
and slides to new position and plays it again.
Jake Doell in Vancouver

For an example of 2 note playing that is outstandingly beautiful, listen to the acapello section of Buddy Emmons' playing of "Silent Night" on his Christmas CD. Even though one might swear he was playing 3 strings, most of it is just 2.

God bless Buddy and all of you,

carl

Just like Bobby says about two notes. We used to play a lot of melody using 2 notes on our 6 string lap steels in the old days. That is why I am all for a "lean and Mean' pedal tuning.....al

Well,I am no expert,so I will just repeat what Paul Franklin says about the use of 3 strings when playing. (Got this off an instructional tape)He says it is acceptable but that you do not want to pick the strings simultaneously,but to pick each note an instant after the other to keep the sound from being to muddy. Also makes the chord sound fuller.