The Steel Guitar Forum

I have been debating whether I wanted to "enter" into this discussion or not. But, I have decided that maybe my experiences as an artist representative, a customer service representative and as a steel guitarist might shed light on the above subject. During the past several years, I have had the pleasure of working with every major steel guitarist. They are generally hard working people who just "happen" to be doing what I wish that I had the guts to do..............and that is to make a living playing steel guitar. What style they play, what type of music that they play and what market picks up on their musical achievements is to their benefit because as you well know, steel gigs are few and far between.

Now, to my point. I've read many comments about Robert Randolph's playing style, most were negative comments I'm sad to say. No, it is not what is normally heard at steel conventions, etc., but it is a different direction that will allow for "worldwide" exposure to this instrument. Robert's recordings remind me of the long 'jams' of The Allman Brothers Band which I grew up with in Macon, Georgia back in the '70's, as well as the hymns of the black gospel choirs that I've heard here in Mississippi. Robert and his band are great musicians, just like steelers Lloyd, Robbie, Jeff, Tommy, etc., only they play a different steel style which may or may not appeal to you. After all, Robert is performing in front of massive audiences(with rock groups The Dave Matthews Band and Widespread Panic), whose audiences are probably hearing a steel for the first time. Like most general audiences who hear an instrument for the first time, they won't know what it is. But, for some in the audience, this will be an instrument that they will want to know more about. Unfortunately, they probably won't visit this valuble STEEL FORUM site, and if they do, they won't participate for fear of being attacked verbally. Ever wonder why more pro players don't participate on this Forum? I'm sure that their limited time is one reason, but I would guess that another reason is that whatever they do in the future with their music would be scrutinized, or hopefully accepted. I really don't know the answer, but all pro players that I have worked with are hard working people who just happen to play steel for a living. Players like Robert will further the steel guitar effort if you listen to performers like Robert with an open mind. Up until a few years ago, I always thought that if I stick with the music that I am comfortable with, I'll be happy. On the other hand, if I stick with this thought process, I won't grow because I don't know what else is going on in the world.

I've spoken with Robert at length by phone, and I feel that I have known him a long time, but I haven't. That was the first conversation that I have ever had with him. All that I am saying is to let this instrument grow in whatever direction it may grow.

My comments are my own and do not reflect anyone's opinion at my place of employment. Let's have a good time with this instrument.

'Nuff said.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Mike Brown on 02 May 2002 at 12:16 PM.]</p></FONT>

can't agree more!!

Mike,
Great post !

Now , has Robert got you working on an amp that he can't blow up ?

Robert has been making the rounds in NYC at the top studios putting down tracks with a bunch of the big rock guys these days. It seems like there must be 3 of him with every place he is showing up .

Bob<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 02 May 2002 at 10:50 AM.]</p></FONT>

HERE HERE Mike! Good post. I think its a great thing to see the steel guitar spread its roots in other kinds of music. After all the Steel got its start with Hawaiian music and then found its home in Country music. No telling where it will go and its a safe bet that Robert will play his guitar in front of more screaming people than guys like me will ever do.

Rick

About change. Just a remark or two here: It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't a scoff or two by old timers when fellow Hoosier Bud Issacs got the notion to hook up what now is the legendary steel lick in Webb Pierce's "Slowly". I remember practicing HARD to achieve Lloyd Green's legendary (IMO) right hand blocking technique, & at the time being told it was a flash in the pan, uh huh. I don't think that life is necessarily easy for an innovator. One runs into a lot of resistance from the "set in their ways" crowd. I reckon it's easy to forget that it was innovation, fresh thinking, etc. that got this instrument where it is. I really feel that steel guitar DESERVES to have the flexibility to achieve being recognized in many styles of music, if not all.
I'm in total agreement with U, Mike & Johan; we need to keep the ol' "wine skin" supple as new innovative players like Robert bring "new wine" to the table.
Good topic, Mike!

Hi, Rick!!

In a few short words:
I will listen to everything with an open mind that proves that the steel guitar is NOT limited to country music. Sure I love good country, but c´m on folks, it´s not all there is! And I sure hope Robert Randolph gets a BIG following. After all, his kind of music is basically what I grew up on!

Regards, Joe H.

Hey Mike good post and I agree with most of it up to a point.
I believe someone can grow just fine; even with a closed mind. You can grow and the steel guitar can grow within one type music and mindset(what ever it may be)......as I'm proof in that. I don't care for other types of music and I don't listen to it if I don't like it. But I will not limit it's growth by banning it for any other types of music. If other folks want to play the steel guitar in other/and many genures; that I don't particulary dig.....so be it> more power to them and the steel guitar; and I won't put down the promotion of it in there either> I just don't listen to it. But I grow and the style of steel guitar that I play is growing just fine; because I love it and play it with all my passion; and that is the clincher in any promotion of what someone wants to advance.
Ricky

Mike..well said and I support you on this 100% and not because I'm a Peavey artist!

You know what I'm working on and it will be very soon that other people begin to know.

I love this instrument and the people involved in it. It's now time to put words into action...and I'm doing just that.

Jerry http://www.slidestation.com
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jerry Brightman on 02 May 2002 at 03:34 PM.]</p></FONT>

AMEN to all of you,s folks remarks and to the growth of the PEDDLE STEEL GUITAR in what ever direction. I personally love the sound of the steel in the old traditional country. KENNY RAY

Mike,I totalty agree with you 100%..Look at 6 string guitar..Styles from Chet Atkins, Les Paul,Jimmy Hendrix,Wille Nelson,Van Halen,Duane Eddy, Don Rich , Brent Mason, so on and so on..
Like night and day styles but all Great sounds and styles..



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Jerry Wallace-2001 Zum: D-10,8+6, "98 Zum: D-10,8+8,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Session 400 head only amp,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
http://communities.msn.com/jerrywallacemusic http://www.jerrywallacemusic.com

Hi Rex! Good to see ya.

Rick

Mike Brown, Gee, it sounds like you believe in the "variety is the spice of life" philosophy. I'd never heard of this player before, so thanks for the inroduction. Can you suggest any CDs on which I might find his work? In an aside, thanks also for the work with Peavey too!. I've got four of your amps. Steve

I agree with Mike Brown's post and would like to add, I had the opportunity to talk with Jerry Brightman at the LT Zinn Michigan Hall of Fame show several weeks ago. I am under the impression that Jerry is taking the Steel Guitar to another level of performance. Jerry let me hear some short demo cuts of where he wants to go with the instrument and try to create a whole new interest with different ideas, styles and instrumentation. I was blown away with what I heard. In case some folks don't know who Jerry is, he played with Buck Owens during the Hee Haw years and is great super picker. However, he has resurfaced and is making a huge statement. From my brief conversation with Jerry I believe he has the drive and staying power to take this project to fruitation...and from what I hear, he is beginning to have big success with it. I hope we will all support him.....

I thought I knew what "sacred steel" was all about and that was a variation of basic slide guitar. I'd heard some of the older guys playing this style and didn't think it was frankly that impressive, nice and very emotional but not my cup of tea.

Then I heard Rober Randolph on NPR and realized that this guy had taken it to another place. Here is a PEDAL steel player with technique to burn who plays in other genres of music, and very competently with any rock or R&B music style. I recommend that any steeler give this guy a listen and I dare say most will be very surprised even if the style ain't exactly your thing.

--JR

Bob Hoffnar, I'm pleased to say that Robert is an endorsing artist for Peavey and is using two Nashville 1000's.

Well said Mike! I also agree 100%. Additionally, I had the great opportunity to speak at length on the telephone with Jerry Brightman several months ago. I discovered that he and I think alike for the most part on the “Which where and why” about a steel guitar, where it might go…and how to advance the instrument.

So what holds the steel guitar “back”? Well, in some cases it is the people that play the thing! Flame me if you wish, but to me a steel guitar is a very versatile instrument. You can play many types of music on it…so play whatever your mind tells you to play! If you get hung up in the old “It’s only good for “old time” country, then yes it might die someday. I hope that never happens.

Anybody ever wonder why Buddy Emmons cut “Hold It” on the “Two Aces Back Together” album? Gee, I guess it was one of the all time great country standards! NOT!! It is an old time R&B break tune. The first time I ever heard it was listening to James Brown & The Famous Flames in a concert (Say what you want to about James, but he DID know how to put a cookin’ band together!), as they got ready to take an intermission. I have no real idea “why” he put it on that album, other than it is a nice, catchy and attention getting piece of music. Why did Doug Jernigan do all that jazz stuff like “Blussette” and “All The Things you Are”? Darned if I know, but probably because they were good pieces of music!

I only hope that people (read that as steel guitar players) will open their minds a bit and begin to understand this instrument for what it is really capable of. I do agree with Ricky Davis, in that if it is not my “cup of Tea” I probably won’t listen to it for any length of time, but that does not stop me from appreciating what some player took his time, talent and money to present to me.

B. Bailey Brown

Great Post Mike,

If things don't change they go extinct. I personally love the suffles from the early sixties but it's a hard sell to the 22-32 year olds that come out to the local scenes. So I pick on the rock music of the late 60's to present and guess what? That works, and it keeps me employed. I have had to learn new styles to play and keep up with the lead guitar player. It can be done, and I do it with out crunching out my steel sound. The pedal Steel Guitar is capable of so much if the players will just let them.

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D 10 Thomas with 8&6, '61'D-10 Sho-Bud 8&4
S12 Knight 4&4
Nashville 400 and Profex II
81' Fender Twin JBL's
Asleep at the Steel

Thanks Mike. I support that view 100%.
When people see this instrument in a new venue, in a new style they'll get curious. When they dig deep enough they'll find all of the history, music and talent that came before and that exists today. It is exciting to see.

Similar stories exist where musical tradition causes extinction. The Hawaiian slack key players used to turn their backs on kids, non-family members and not share 'their tunings'. The art almost died until Gabby, Keola Beamer and others increased the visibility in the 70's. Then 25 years later Dancing Cat's George Winston continued that sharing - they publish the tunings! Good to share, good to evolve and grow.

I saw RR live this winter. Was wonderful. So much talent and positive emotion. I was touched. BUT - take ear plugs! Seriously.

A good CD is 'THE WORD', and the live CD "Live at the Wetlands" with the Family Band. If you can't attend the convention in FL - view the Sacred Steel Video - Robert ain't the only one that will amaze you.

AND TONIGHT (FRIDAY 5/3), check your local PBS radio for the 'World Cafe' program. RR will be on and playing one our forumites products. Sage Harmos' lap steel.
cheers mates,
Chris

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"We can't afford to let Nature run wild" - govt. offical - Alaska
www.seldomfed.com

Hi Mike, I agree with you totally, "All that I am saying is to let this instrument grow in whatever direction it may grow." In my early years with Ian Tyson & The Great Speckled Bird, I had the opportunity of taking the instrument into the country rock genre backing many artists on the TV Show. Thereafter, I was asked to join Gordon Lightfoot's band whom I toured with 14 years on the road having the opportunity of travelling the world, playing 20000 seat auditoriums every night & most of all introducing the steel guitar to a new audience. Playing with Gordon took the instrument into a new genre of music, performing on The Midnight Special, thats really aging me, even playing with the Saturday Night Live Band in 1978 & those guys dug the steel. At the time I was using the MXR phase shifter, distorion pedals etc. & playing out of the box. I ran into so many fans that had no idea what I was playing & it felt great to introduce the instrument to a whole new crowd, that truly loved the sound! In the late 70's with steel players losing work to keyboard players, I had this brain wave of being able to midi the steel guitar. After much research & time I came up with a prototype utilizing the Roland GR300 & performed at the NAMM Show & at a venue in Nashville, I can't remember? As well, with the IVL Steelrider unit at Scottys convention. It took a lot to be able to get up in front of the family of steel players & introduce this new technology, The Steelrider. As you said, we must let the instrument grow in whatever direction it takes it, & have an open mind!! Some will like it & some will not, but at the end of the day, it truly will benefit us all. We have so many talented players to thank like, Paul Franklin who took the steel to a whole new audience touring the world with Mark Knopfler & Dire Straits & did an incredible job!! If you don't have the video, get it! Players like Buddy Cage, Ben Keith & Robert Randolph, Tommy White, Buddy & soooo many more, all my heroes! Whether it be Country, Rock, Jazz, Blues or classical, let the insrtument go where it is capable & let the masses see it & hear it! The best is yet to come!! Thanks for letting me air my opinion & Health & Happiness to all!! http://members.rogers.com/music12/index.html

Those who think the pedal steel doesn't belong in anything except Country music are also entitled to believe as they chose, but think about this:

It's probably safe to say most of us here on the Forum aren't into Heavy Metal or Rap too much, and I haven't heard of much use of the pedal steel in these styles......yet. What would we think if one evening we turned on Conan or whatever and there was some kid-band, with their Les Pauls and vintage Gretsches strapped on their knees, pounding out their teen-angst as usual, and then the camera pans over to a spikey-blue-haired kid with a beautiful classic P/P plugged into a wall of Marshalls and making a noise like 100 tortured cats?

How many would scream "Sacrilege!" Probably most of us, maybe even me too at first thought. But here's something to think about.

All the modern styles of music borrow bits and pieces of each other, this is undeniable. Witness pedal steel in songs by Grateful Dead, Eric Clapton, Bob Dylan, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, many more. Modern Country also has borrowed many elements of pop and rock.
As much as it may hurt our ears, I believe even a steel swawking in a punk band would help popularize the instrument.

Back to the "blue haired punk steel player"... this band would most likely have fans of college-student-age, plus or minus some years. They've never heard of a pedal steel, or any of our steel-playing heroes. Those who are musically inclined will be very interested in what that "flat guitar-looking-thing" is and quite possibly be influenced enough to get one and try learning to play it. In the process of learning to play and learning about the instrument itself, they'll almost certainly discover the great ones who've gone before. Many of them will learn to respect, even like, the players and the music of traditional steel and will add to it.

Besides, if steel was hot even in a punk-rock band, it would only cause people to believe that steel must be the hot, happening instrument, in ANY genre. So why don't we just be happy when anyone's playing our favorite instrument, no matter if they're not playing our favorite music on it? It's only going to further the steel in ALL kinds of music, and that's GOOD.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 03 May 2002 at 08:15 PM.]</p></FONT>

I was rather shocked one night when I stumbled on to a channel (probably MTV) that had a rock band called either Everlast or Everclear (can't remember, it was a while ago). What caught my attention was the guitar player had a Fender (probably Stringmaster?) double or triple neck set up in front of him. He probably played the steel a third of the time. Not that I liked the music the band played, but seeing the steel in this band kept my attention enough to watch the whole show. I'm glad to see the steel "branching out" to other music forms besides country and Hawaiian music.

Also I was at Chuck E. Cheese for my daughter's birthday on Wednesday, and on the video screen there was a band (rock) that had a pedal steel set up in front of the lead guitar player. Unfortunately, he didn't play it. The band was called something like "Trout Fishing in America". Went to their website but no mention of who the guitar player was.

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Carter D10 9p/10k
Richard Sinkler