Finally got me a S12

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 4 Apr 2002 7:22 am

Thanks to Dag Wolf for finding this 7+7 S12 ZumSteel for me.
I just didn't realize how much I missed those two low strings on my S10. I just have to do a little reconfiguration to get all the pullrods the way I want. The B - Bb on string 10-P7 is connected but not in use. If I find I need it I'll just tune the pullrod thats already there.

Left foot does pedal 1 to 5
Right foot does pedal 4 to 7

<pre>
LKL1 LKR1
String LKL2 LKV LKR2 P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 RKL RKR
1 F# | | | | | | | | | | | G | | | G# |
2 Eb | | D | | | E | | | | | | | | C# | |
3 G# | | | | | | | A | | A | | | | | |
4 E | F | | | Eb | | | | F# | | F# | | | | |
5 B | | | Bb | | | C# | | C# | | | | | | |
6 G# | | | | | | | A | | | | | A# | | |
7 F# | | | | | | | | | | | G | | | G# |
8 E | F | | | Eb | | | | | | | | | | |
9 D | | | | | | | | | Eb | | | | C# | |
10 B | | | Bb | | A | C# | | | | | |(Bb)| | |
11 G# | | A | | | F# | | | | | | G | | | |
12 E | F | | | | | | | | | F# | | | | |

</pre>
ZumSteel S12
Bengt Erlandsen[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 04 April 2002 at 07:26 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 Apr 2002 8:06 am

You have a lot of interesting changes there, Bengt.

I have found two very useful changes for the 12th string that you should consider. First, lower the low E to C# on your 'F' lever (LKL2). This is the natural root of the chord formed by the lever. It is much more useful that the F note.

Second, lower the low E to D on the third pedal. This change does not interfere with normal orpeation of the pedal, and it adds a low D major chord (with P2) that's great for rock and thumb-style picking.

I've tried including a low F# several times, but never found it very useful. It looks like a good idea on paper. Let me know how you like it after you've had it for a while.

Thanks for posting this, and good luck with your new Zum!

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 04 April 2002 at 08:07 AM.][This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 04 April 2002 at 08:08 AM.]

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 4 Apr 2002 8:30 am

First, lower the low E to C# on your 'F' lever (LKL2). This is the natural root of the chord formed by the lever. It is much more useful that the F note.

For me the low F is more useful.

Second, lower the low E to D on the third pedal. This change does not interfere with normal orpeation of the pedal, and it adds a low D major chord (with P2) that's great for rock and thumb-style picking.

Amen

I've tried including a low F# several times, but never found it very useful. It looks like a good idea on paper. Let me know how you like it after you've had it for a while.

I find it useful, and it's on the lever that lowers D# and D.

As for "looks good [only] on paper" that is true about many of the low string pulls, when playing with a group. But I do use them a lot when playing alone.

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 9 Apr 2002 3:33 pm

Thanks for the feedback.
I tried both changes and moved some of the pulls in order to get the low C#.
The low D sounded real cool but I just could not figure out how to get from B to a C note on string 10 at the same time.
The low F# sounds good to me for a whole lot of different voicings. I mostly use it for the 5th note of the V-chord together with Bpedal and RKL2 D-Eb. It also makes it possible to play more than two octaves of a major scale without moving the bar.

Now hopefully I can leave the pulls as they are and just play this guitar in to my feets/fingers.

Here is the improved setup.

Some pedal information:
P5 - P7 is used in combination with P1&P2
P4&P5 is used together with LKR1
P7 is used together with RKL

<pre>
LKL1 LKR RKL RKR1
String LKL2 LKV P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 RKR2
1 F# | | | | | | | | F | | G | | | G# | |
2 Eb | | | | | | | | | | | |D/C#| | |
3 G# | | | | | | A | | | | | | | | A |
4 E | F | | F# | Eb | | | F# | | | | | | | |
5 B | | | | | C# | | C# | | | | Bb | | | |
6 G# | | G | | | | A | | | A# | | | | | |
7 F# | | | | | | | | F | | G | | | G# | |
8 E | F | | | Eb | | | | | | | | | | |
9 D | | | | | | | | | | | | C# | | Eb |
10 B | | | | | C# | | | | | | Bb | | | |
11 G# | | G | | | | A | | | A# | | | | | |
12 E | F | | | | | | F# | C# | | | | | | |

</pre>
ZumSteel S12
Bengt Erlandsen[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 10 April 2002 at 07:19 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 10 Apr 2002 8:30 am

Hey Bengt,
I think a couple of thing I'd change on this copedant would be the following:

On LKR I'd add a change on string 9 to lower it to C#. This would give you a B6th that would be like some of the C6th players who now add a D note in the middle of their tuning between the E and C.

On pedal 5 I'd put what I call the maj7/9 or "Thompson" pedal which raises the 5th and 6th strings a whole tone each. This is a very useful change and can be used for a lot of 6th stuff like "Girl from Ipanema" Raisin' the Dickins" etc.

On pedal 6 I'd lower string 9 to C and lower 12 to D#.

On pedal 7 , I see you're lowering 5 and 10 a half tone which is OK but I think I'd move the 5th string lower to RKR2 and the lower on the 10th string to pedal 6 with the other two changes I suggested.

Glad to see you're playing a S12 as they're the wave of the future I believe.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 10 Apr 2002 11:18 am

The D-C# is already there on my RKL.
I use both feet to play P1 & P5 to raise 5&6 a whole tone.
I can see the use for both string 2&9 down to C but for the moment I can do without. P6 is not just for the obvious dom7 in A+B position, but an important pedal when used together with P5 or P7.
With my right foot I use P5, P6 ,P7 or a combination of P5&P6, P6&P7 while left foot holds P1&P2.

This setup requires both feet on the pedals in order to function properly.
Left foot covers P1 thru P5
Right fot covers P4 thru P7

I might try some of the changes later but for the moment I'll try to keep it the way it is and see/hear if I miss some changes/voicings.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 10 Apr 2002 12:14 pm

Bengt-you have some good ideas there. With both feet on the pedals (when you need them) provides good coverage.

On Pedal 5, Jerry Hayes is right about that, put the C# in there too. I know you have it in pedal 1, BUT you are losing the B on the 10th string, and that is important to the Maj7 to get that sound.....al

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 10 Apr 2002 3:05 pm

I wonder if P3 + P5 will do the trick.
10string = root and string 8 thru 5 will be 3rd 5th 7th and 9th.( with E's - Eb )
Also, if I put the B-C# on P5 I loose the B on the 5th string. But on the other hand I could use the pedal by itself. I had the G#-A# on a knee-lever on my S10 and for single note runs it is really nice to have the whole tone raise on string 5 & 6 by themselves. But I have a spare hole in the raise finger so I might put the B-C# on P5 and use it when needed.