The Steel Guitar Forum

Well hey I am financially challenged. So I am trying to record with audacity program offered online for free. I am having latency problems in the dub with monitoring and the actual recording. Does anyone have a fix for this? Any help would be appreciated.

Many (Most) PC sound cards have poor latency.

Its not Audacity, its the PC sound card (or module) that is the culprit. I don't use Audacity, but does it have a way of shifting a track, right or left, to try and get it in line with the other track? I have a recording studio, using Sonar software and it does have that capability, as does most other recording programs such as ProTools.

First question, do you have the PC Vendor's sound driver? Or in the case of a custom built, the motherboard vendor's sound driver. Generally, the PC vendor's driver is the preferred driver.

If you don't have the PC vendor's driver get that and see if it helps. If you have the correct driver, start saving for a "real" recording interface unit. There are some relatively inexpensive units such as the USB connected Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 unit.

Yes, in Audacity you can shift the recorded track and line it up with the rhythm track. I've been using Audacity for the past five years to record all of my stuff. Bare bones, no interface, just steel to preamp to stomp boxes into computer. Click on my mp3 links below to hear some of it.

Thanks I had thought that the moving the track may be the only way to do that. I am just using the built in sound card on my presario laptop. I am just tickled that the program was available for nothing. I appreciate everyones input. It has helped a lot! Great tracks you posted also. Off to record! LOL

Doug..I use to be able to play a soundtrack
with Audacity and add my steel track at the same time. However, I did some kinda update and now I can't record
that way any longer. I've tried everything and can't fix it.

Rick

www.rickjohnsoncabinets.com

Doug,
Do a google search for ASIO4All

This is a free universal audio driver that can give you better control and performance.

Download and install and configure Audacity to use this sound driver and it should improve your system.

ASIO4 is iffy. I see a lot of problems with this posted on recording forums. More seem to have problems with it than those that do not.

If the sound device that is being used has an ASIO driver then ASIO4ALL is not needed. But, even if it works on a given PC it won't help the latency.

Rick, try deleting Audacity from your computer and then upload the latest version from their web site. And you may have to tinker with the Recording settings in your computer. With Windows7 you have to enable/disable either the line-in, mic, or stereo mix in the control panel/sound/recording. You can also adjust the recording level there.

I have a copy of Audacity, although as noted I don't use it since I have Sonar.

Here is a screen shot. It will only allow selecting the "Stereo Mix" (from my PC's RealTek sound) as the recording source on my system.

Ho do not know if it will help but audacity 2.0.5 was released on 21st October, maybe worth updating.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows

John I have been looking closely at this newer version and although I have not tried it yet in reading up on it there are some minor fixes that may be helpful. Thanks for the info

You can adjust Audacity to compensate for hardware latency in both direction under Edit->Preferences->Recording. It's kind of hit-and-miss to figure out how much lag your hardware produces, you just have to do some trial and error.

All hardware has some latency, so the idea is simply to time-shift what you're hearing in playback to align with what you're overdubbing in real time. For this reason you have to monitor what you're overdubbing live, not through software (input echo) or you will hear the latency directly (which will be substantial using native windows sound drivers with Audacity).

Commercial programs like ProTools, Sonar, Cubase, etc. calculate latency and make the necessary compensation for you in both directions. They can also utilize the faster ASIO drivers, which bi-pass the OS sound API and control the hardware directly, so there is substantially less latency, though still some.

Drivers like ASIO4All are just generic versions for standard soundcards. These won't work with Audacity, as ASIO is a proprietary standard (Steinberg I think)and must be licensed by the software developer. If you are a programmer you could probably hack Audacity to make it work with ASIO, but it would be a lot easier (and probably yield better results) to just go out and buy a cheap USB interface for <$100 with its own ASIO drivers and a bundled "lite" version of ProTools or something similar.

Audacity is a great program with lots of cool plugins for things like pitch-shifting or tempo-shifting, removing noise from old analog tape recordings, etc. but it definitely has its limitations.

So far I have been able to move the tracks easily so this has become not such a prob... although it takes a little longer to ready the piece for mix. I am just very very happy that it is a really good free software I can use. I am currently putting together an album because it has been requested. I have built a lot of back up music with biab and this is a good utility to use to add other instruments. Thanks for every ones awesome information and help.

Hi Rick. How have you been ?

I was doing a little research today on sound cards and audio interfaces as I just switched computers and my former way of recording is also not working. According to one web site, a lot of the newer sound cards will not send an output to your recording program as they are trying to curb audio / song theft. You may have updated your sound card driver and it has stopped the communication with the recording software?

I am still able to bring up a you tube track on a laptop and feed that into my desktop recording PC using Audacity as a my recording software and that still works out.

My problem is that the newer desktop I just started using has a very heavy latency lag. I am not a wiz at this by any means but I agree with Jack that the sound card is probably the biggest culprit.

My recording setup is very basic and I only record for myself to learn and improve from. I come out of a tube preamp right into one channel on a small mixing pad and I use two other inputs on the pad to feed my backing track into. I then go directly from the mixing pad into the PC sound card and it worked good with my former older desktop. I did have to watch that I did not overdrive the soundcard but I was able to get some pretty decent recordings. I
also was able to play the track on the desktop that I was recording on and it worked fine on the old PC. That looks to be a thing of the past.

It looks like my next step will be to purchase either a better sound card or a USB audio interface. I believe that a lot of USB audio interfaces only have the preamp style inputs and they will not accept line level signals which means that I would need to alter my recording system.?

Just as a note, my former computer was old enough that it had a Pentium 4 processor which was slower but worked decent enough. I am now trying to use a couple of year old Gateway computer with I 3 processor and 8 megs of ram and now I have a latency problem. The I 3 should be running circles around the old Pentium 4. I only use these desktops for recording purpose as the laptop is my everyday workhorse.

As an FYI, there are quite a few You Tube videos showing how to adjust the tracks in Audacity for latency.

Any one have any thoughts or suggestions as to how to improve the way I am trying to record.

Doug B, are you playing your backing track right on the computer you are recording on or how are you getting your tracks in the mix.?

Thanks
Ray DeVoe

Doug B, are you playing your backing track right on the computer you are recording on or how are you getting your tracks in the mix.?

I usually do bass and drums in BIAB, and make a WAV of that, and import it to Audacity. Then I add live rhythm guitar(s) or uke, and steel guitar.

Thanks Doug B.

I have so much to learn about recording as I just started playing around with it 2 years ago. It's just for myself but I try to make it decent quality as a few steel player friends and I always share our current projects.

I am going to check out a Stienburg UR 44 interface as it looks like it will accept line level inputs along with the standards pre-amped mic inputs. It also claims almost 0 latency. I just want to keep things simple. One feed directly from the tube preamp and another from a backing track source such as my laptop.

I also want to stay with Audacity at this time as I know my way around it a bit.

Jack S:

Does the Steinberg UR 44 look like a decent interface that is compatible with what I am trying to do? If you have time, please check it out and lets have your thoughts on it. Its seems to be one of the more reasonable units out there, features verses dollars. It lists that it has line level inputs which is what I need. Guitar Centers has the unit on their web site.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Steinberg-U ... 3517004.gc

Thanks
Ray D

One solution would be to capture your tracks on a Zoom R16 then port them to the PC. The Zoom can support an unlimited number of recorded tracks but limits you to playing back only 16 at one time. You can port your drum or BIAB track to the Zoom, add all your instrument tracks then bring the Zoom tracks back to the PC for final editing. You can always add more Zoom tracks later of course. The Zoom will have inaudible latency. This would save you buying a new sound card and/or a PC recording interface. The resulting tracks in Audacity or Reaper (if you so choose) will be lined up perfectly and will run fine on any average PC.

Hey Greg

Thanks for chiming in. I'm sure that you are very knowledable of recording methods as you have made much material available to us by way of your website. ( We thank you for that )

I sure did not mean to Hi Jack this post but I think the original poster is benifiting as well from all of the topics being addressed here.

I had read in another post where someone had made a suggestion to a player about using a Zoom XR 16 for recording and transferring files to the computer. This does look like another good method of performing recording but it may be overkill for what I am doing. I really do not play any other instruments and will not be personally adding other tracks. I was really mainly interested in the best way to record a completed backing track from another computer or output, and the steel by way of line level output from the preamp. This is probably boring to you multi talented guys. LOL.

With the above stated, do you feel that an interface may be the best way for me to go, or does the Zoom XR 16 just plain make it simpler plus offer a lot more recording possibilities. I would need to buy the Zoom or the interface so I need to spend some dollars on gear, one way or the other.

Right now my mixing pad for the two signals is an old Samson Mix pad 9 which at least allows me to set the level of the two feeds. I just set the tone controls flat. Then I am going from this right into the PC sound card. This system no longer works well with the latency issue. I know that I can manually adjust for the latency in Audacity but I am trying to improve on my setup as it was easy to overdrive the PC sound card and add distortion.

Thanks
Ray DeVoe

Ray the Zoom R16 will work great for you but sounds likes it's far more than you need. The R16 can be had used for well under $300. You could copy your backing track to the R16, record your steel tracks, and get perfect alignment. Just copy them back to the PC and you would be all set.

Seems like with some adjustment for latency, you should be able to keep your current setup, buy nothing, and get aligned tracks though.

I have a Fostex MR-8HD/CD Multitracker for sale in the Amps & Accessories. Cheap way to get into recording.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=259200

Thanks Greg and all for the replies and help.

I ended up getting an M Audio interface that's working very well for what I do.

Thanks
Ray DeVoe

I downloaded my Audacity from a disc, also free. There is an Audacity help forum that provides answers to most problems. It can be accessed from the Audacity menu.

I don't think there is a way to solve the latency problem with audacity by making adjustments in hardware.

The best way I know of to deal with latency is to channel the computer's output to a mixer and channel the track being recorded through the mixer while the already recorded tracks are playing. That way there are no latency issues to deal with.

This is what I do with mixcraft but it will work with audacity the same way. There are mixers for $99 that will work just fine. I use an old mackie 1202 but there is nothing sacred about it.

IMO audacity is as good as any commercial recording program on the market.

That's a good idea James. What I did at first was put down a click track and then record a reference track with rhythm guitar and vocal. Every new track I record after that (including new rhythm and vocal)is against that first reference track. That way all new tracks have the exact same latency and are in sync with each other. When finished I just delete the reference track.

Just in case someone tries this I am going to try and remember what wires go where.

tracks already recorded go from the computer soundcard to the mixer.

track being recorded go through the mixer to the soundcard.

When recording, the track being recorded is audible while being played as it is picked up by the mixer. Sound from the play along tracks is also audible so there is no latency delay.

Fred Glave wrote:That's a good idea James. What I did at first was put down a click track and then record a reference track with rhythm guitar and vocal. Every new track I record after that (including new rhythm and vocal)is against that first reference track. That way all new tracks have the exact same latency and are in sync with each other. When finished I just delete the reference track.