The Steel Guitar Forum

No idea how these sound. I hope they sound a lot better than the Blackface reissues. They are making new versions of the '68 Silverface "drip edge" Twins, Deluxes and Princetons. Reverb on both channels. Read up on the diffence in the two channels. Quite different. I just thought these were interesting. Thought I would pass it along. If anyone has played through one of these, please report.

http://www.fender.com/series/vintage-mo ... verb-120v/

New Fender amps are crap. The fact that the make them look like real amps only adds insult to the horrible degradation of Leo's amazing legacy.

There's still plenty of old Silverface Amps out there, and they're cheaper than buying new crap. All I do to mine is re-tube them, and play'em.

Wish I had all the"drip-edge" Twins I wore out playing with George Jones and Ray Price...I must have gone through three or four...they all had JBL speakers in them...baffles torn out,tubes busted,speakers blown...they're all gone...still got the two blackfaced ones I ended up with!

you'd have to be insane to spend $1800 on that

The silverface amps made a substantial contribution to the reputation of pre-CBS models.

On the bright side, it will probably make it a lot easier to get a hold of some of that aluminum trim for my early 69 Dual Showman Reverb.

The '68's had cloth wiring... some of them were identical to the BF's. Others had way strange things like cathode bias added... an attempt to use less fully-matched finals... the bias balance circuit was another one in this vein.

That said, many silverfaces were better for steel than the BF's... more power, cleaner output. If it's a dead-on reissue of the '68 Twin Reverb then there'll be some funny stuff going on in the final cathode circuit... I'll bet they left that one out. The 47K PI plate resistors give a cleaner output with less harmonic distortion... better for pedal steel, not so much better for guitar.

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... _schem.pdf

I own one of these transition Twins... it's a Mesa-Boogie MkIIb right now... I'll eventually change it back (somewhat).

I had to check the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1st

They've also reissued the Starcaster and Coronados.

Whatever makes 'em money.

Heck, soon there will be reissues of reissues.

John Dowden wrote:On the bright side, it will probably make it a lot easier to get a hold of some of that aluminum trim for my early 69 Dual Showman Reverb.

Or my '68 Vibrolux...good news! Who cares about the crappy PC amps...

Bob Hoffnar wrote:New Fender amps are crap...

Bob, you've had hands on, second hands on, experience with a new Fender amp(s), and you can elaborate with specifics, said crapyness? If they are indeed a lemon, how do feel they can justify from a p/l stand point, offering a standard five year warranty?

Like everything marketed by Fender, or any other major manufacturer, the MSRP is never the street price. This amp is available from Sweetwater for $1300 including shipping. Not bad if you can get past the printed circuit board thing.

There's a place for the $3,000 hand built boutique amps, and a place for the assembly line amps that are almost affordable by the actual working musician.

I'd love to try this amp out.

It is better for the bottom line to build cheap and modular and then replace the crap part then build it well in the first place. Fender's value is as a marketing image. The logo is where the money is. . There is not much money in building things well compared to the easy money corporate circle jerk.



Using the fender warranty is a royal pain in the ass. I used new the fender amp warranty quite often and every tech that looked inside showed me another example of what a piece of crap the amp was. The new silver face is twice as expensive as a real 70's fender. Used vintage Silver face twins go for under $700.

I have plenty of experience as an owner, renter and user of new fender amps. I even had an engineer send me home to get a real amp when I proudly brought in my reissue fender. We were getting sounds and he said something was really wrong with my tone. Luckily I had time because the drums were taking forever.

I wonder if those low bid labor fender amp builders have any idea what they are squeezing those gobs of silicon on.

I've heard good examples of both old and new Fenders, as well as examples of the other kind. Most of the "bad" old Fender amps have been dumped in the garbage or parted off long ago, so we are left with the most robust examples, which may or not be "good" depending on the expectations of the player or their requirements. Even a dog can have staying power.

What I've read in the limited literature regarding the new amps I like. The marketing doesn't bother me and if Fender stands behind a 5 year warranty, I have a little more confidence to take it seriously. Fender's printed circuits look a lot better than they used to and as long as the tubes aren't socketed there, I'm ok with them.

One would have to look very long and hard in Northern California to find a clean vintage silver face twin that hasn't been mod'd or otherwise butchered, for $700 or less. At that price range you're likely to find something that needs to immediately go to a good tube amp shop for a lot of work. Tube, capacitors, speakers, undoing stupid mods, ?

You could easily end up spending as much as the price of a new amp. If you went the vintage amp route, you may end up with a better amp in the long run, but it's a pretty big gamble.

Kind of hard to justify either way when gigs are so hard to get and the pay is usually not more than $100, not counting the gas.

It is better for the bottom line to build cheap and modular and then replace the crap

Original crap + new part crap <$ build it right in the first place part ?

I don't buy that Bob; I'm not privy to their balance sheet, you are?

I even had an engineer send me home to get a real amp when I proudly brought in my reissue fender.

Said amp made you proud at home, at previous gigs, then all of a sudden it took a crap? How long had you been proud before said engineer busted ya? When you said getting sounds, your amp had gas?

Yes, I own Fender amps, even had one fall off the stage and it survived, not me....never had one pinch a loaf at a gig either...maybe I've been lucky?

Bob Hoffnar wrote:It is better for the bottom line to build cheap and modular and then replace the crap part then build it well in the first place

Sadly this is the state of the electronics industry as a whole

If you remember VCR's, the original ones were bomb proof and repairable with inexpensive parts. Then they became plastic modular robot produced $75 junk that barely survived their warranty. Same goes for TV sets. It's become a disposable marketplace.

Corporate Fender has adopted that same mentality. I doubt anyone plugs a guitar into it at any point in the manufacturing process. Maybe I'm wrong. The warranty usually means -"send it back, we'll send you another one and junk the bad one"

If you're ok with that wasteful business model, go ahead and support it. Ultimately it's not sustainable - the vintage and boutique amps will carry on through the ages and the new ones will head back to China for scrap and turn into the next generation of disposable radios TVs amplifiers or what have you

My experience with the BF '65 Reissues sound-wise is that the smaller Deluxe and Princeton are closer to sounding like the real deal than the Twin or Super. Also, I've had very little tech problems with my Deluxe Reissue yet went through three faulty Twins before giving up. Therefore, I've retained the Deluxe reissue but have given up on the Twin reissues. I don't think I'll bother with the drip-edge reissue unless the Princeton sounds good. I might take on a change on that at $699 or whatever it is. Worth a whirl anyway. But as Bob H. said, you can get a decent "real" SF Twin any day of the week for $6-$700.

Having said all this, my main amp now for steel and guitar is an original BF Tremolux. You just cannot beat an original hand-wired Fender.

What Bob said. if you look under the hood, the original Fender amps and today's re-issues have nothing in common. It should be illegal to even call them re-issues. I'm not big on nostalgia but I have owned and played several re-issue Fenders, and they are pathetic imitations of the real deal. I currently own an original Princeton Brownface, a BF Deluxe and a BF Champ. Those amps are the real deal.

Look, the only rhing the re-issues have in common with the original is the appearance. Under the hood, it's night and day.

Has wrong speaker in it, and why pay more than a s/h original?

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I have owned a '65 Twin Re-issue since 1992 and have not had a single problem with it. Last year I bought a '65 Deluxe Reverb Re-issue that sounds good to my ears. It breaks-up at about 4.5 with my Strat and has plenty of volume. I have never A/B'd these with the "real things". So, I can't really comment if they have the vintage sound that they claim to have.

A few years ago I played a gig where I used a vintage Fender amp that was on the back line. I think it was a Concert or something like that. It was pure crap. It had no volume and popped and pinged. When it cut out on the sound check, I ended up going out to my car and getting my Twin re-issue. I almost missed the first song. I chalked this up to poor maintenance by the owner, however.

Tim's Milkmans really look good to me. I just don't play out enough anymore to justify the cost. After I finish refurbishing my house, I may try to talk my wife into it though. She has a difficult time understanding why I need five or six amps in my music room. Tim's and Ken Fox's amps make me drool.

Allen Peterson

I wonder if you can modify the silverface reissues
to the blackface reissue specs ! ? ? !

You can rebuild them back to BF spec by throwing away the PCB.

In the near future all these reissues will be up for grabs to us amp builders, can't wait.

Mark


Fowler Valve Amps