The future of the steel

[David Anderson]

I have been thinking a lot about the future of pedal steel guitar, reading posts about the skill level of todays players, and the success of the ISGC, and it makes me wonder if there isn't more that we can do as players and forum members to help grow the interest in the pedal steel to new aspiring players?

First, I wonder if it would be productive to have a new section in the forum for newbees? Something where new players could introduce themselves, ask questions about their progress, ask about equipment, post about their progress, etc.

Second, it seems like a grass roots effort to get players together and start to grow communities of players in cities around the country would be a benefit to the future of steel guitar. Maybe people that have music stores could start rental programs for people wanting to try the steel, but are intimidated to make the financial commitment to purchasing a steel guitar? Stores should hold jams that at least promote a style of music that could welcome steel players. I know we don't all own music stores, but we all spend time at stores and probably have influence on the independant brick and morter stores.
Maybe some of us have second instruments sitting around that could be donated to our favorite stores with the agreement to start rental programs or consignment programs to get steels in students hands. Maybe we can educate store owners and salesmen to take an interest in the steel as a niche market by showing them how to play and how the instrument works. I've seen this kind of thing happen with bluegrass and it can work.

Third, I think manufacures can possibly step up to the plate and design not only an affordable steel, but one that is a solid, good sounding, playable instrument that can be mass produced. I understand that most companies are very small operations, so perhaps some builders could get together and co design a method to make this happen. Perhaps a company could liscense their design to someone bigger like Peavey to produce a student steel that is affordable?

Fourth, players should continue to post videos and tabs about how they execute even simpe runs, chord changes, etc. This is happening on youtube, but continue to grow it. Companies can also grow excitiement by having videos of players using their products.

Fifth, start utilizing social media. Entities like Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, etc. this is all free and can really get new people interested.

I'm sure there are many other great ideas that can be thrown out there. What do you think would work? If we start a dialogue about it and then begin to see some of these ideas through, interest will grow. It sure beats the alternative!

[Curt Trisko]

I'm a relatively new to the instrument and I think what we already have now is great. Youtube is an incredible resource and so is this forum. Ultimately, I think it has to start with the newbie. PSG is not something simple that can be pushed on somebody. All it takes is for the newbie to hear the instrument in a context that really catches his attention. I think psg has enough exposure where that already happens for the people that are open to it.

But you're definitely right that having more instruments floating around can't hurt. I know plenty of young, amateur musicians where the first time they ever saw a psg in person was when they saw mine.

[David Anderson]

I agree, youtube is an awesome source to learn about pedal steel and this forum is priceless! I used to work in music retail, and anytime I sat at a steel in the shop, people would come up and ask about it. It's a captivating instrument and generates interest, especially live and in person.

This leads me to believe that working with retail music stores is a key part in exposure and educating people about the pedal steel guitar. I know we used to have groups of musicians come and play on Saturday afternoons and it was a big draw. Maybe seasoned players could work with stores in their area to hold workshops or even impromptu demonstrations of pedal steel?

[Richard Sinkler]

First, I wonder if it would be productive to have a new section in the forum for newbees? Something where new players could introduce themselves, ask questions about their progress, ask about equipment, post about their progress, etc.

This has been discussed many times here, and the general consensus has been that most experienced players would not read it. New players would be missing out on the opportunity to learn from guys that "have already been there". Also, a lot of bad advice could get thrown around there. It's not advantageous for a newbie to learn from another newbie that is doing something wrong. I'm not trying to discourage newbies from starting their own "club", but it must be done with caution, keeping in mind those points I brought up.

Second, it seems like a grass roots effort to get players together and start to grow communities of players in cities around the country would be a benefit to the future of steel guitar.

Many areas have local steel guitar clubs and get togethers. I started having jams back in the 90's at my work place. When I left there, someone else took over but finally had to give it up. A jam or 2 sprung up after that, but after that, nothing. It seems harder to find people that have access to a place to hold the jams or meetings. In the Bay Area here, I have volunteered to organize jams and maybe another steel guitar club, but others would have to help with a venue to do it. I no longer have the resources.

Second, it seems like a grass roots effort to get players together and start to grow communities of players in cities around the country would be a benefit to the future of steel guitar. Maybe people that have music stores could start rental programs for people wanting to try the steel, but are intimidated to make the financial commitment to purchasing a steel guitar? Stores should hold jams that at least promote a style of music that could welcome steel players. I know we don't all own music stores, but we all spend time at stores and probably have influence on the independant brick and morter stores.
Maybe some of us have second instruments sitting around that could be donated to our favorite stores with the agreement to start rental programs or consignment programs to get steels in students hands. Maybe we can educate store owners and salesmen to take an interest in the steel as a niche market by showing them how to play and how the instrument works. I've seen this kind of thing happen with bluegrass and it can work.

Unfortunately, even an entry level steel at $1000 is more than the average, or even big name store wants to pony up for an instrument that may or may not sell quick enough. Although, renting would at least give them return on their investment, eventually paying off what they invested, and then it's all profit, provided that there is someone in their local area that wants to rent one.. Music store owner mentality is more along the lines of, "I can sell 3 or 4 regular guitars, decent Mexican Telecaster, Strats, and other cheap brands (every day), for what one steel guitar could cost (and probably sit on their floor for several months). And, those that have second instruments may not want to part with them on the off-chance that someone may damage it. And, if they were interested in doing something like that, they could do it themselves without having to hook up with a music store.

Third, I think manufacures can possibly step up to the plate and design not only an affordable steel, but one that is a solid, good sounding, playable instrument that can be mass produced. I understand that most companies are very small operations, so perhaps some builders could get together and co design a method to make this happen. Perhaps a company could liscense their design to someone bigger like Peavey to produce a student steel that is affordable?

This also has come up in the past. The market now has more "affordable" steel guitars than ever in the 42 years I have been in the steel guitar community. Thinking that you are going to see steel guitars get to the $500 or cheaper level is an impossible dream. Even a half way decent steel guitar is expensive to make. Lots of man hours. Big companies like Peavey have no interest in mass producing steel guitars. It costs a fortune for tooling, advertising, etc for an instrument that may sit in a music store for 6 months to a year (or longer) without selling. No manufacturer or store owner would want to lay out that much expense up front on an item that would not sell quick enough.

Unfortunately, the pedal steel guitar is an expensive instrument to produce, and even play. And it is very difficult to learn.

[Curt Trisko]

A couple of months before I bought my steel, a music teacher held a demonstration for pedal steel at a large music store nearby. This guy was a multi-instrumentalist with a wide interest in music. I imagine he was doing it in order to sell people on taking private lessons.

Anyways, long story short, I was the only person that showed up!

I don't know how things were decades ago, but it seems to me that from here on out, pedal steel will always be a sub-culture of people that seek each other out instead of being solicited by others.

[Richard Sinkler]

Anyways, long story short, I was the only person that showed up!

And there is the answer to why no music store is going to take much of an interest.

[Daniel Policarpo]

You know David, many people are resigned to the perspective of fading popularity for the pedal steel, but I am not. I picked this up relatively late in life (42 years old) but coming from the big city, I had not been exposed to it until I moved to Tulsa OK and met my wife who turned me on to country music proper, the good stuff! And then I heard a pedal steel in person and that was it! Pedal steel was all I could think about and with a kid in school it took me a couple years to get the cash together for my Stage One.

Think about how many of our heroes were Oahu students whose first exposure was due to a traveling salesperson or another Oahu commercial avenue. Sure, one's interest can be piqued by youtube and forum discussion, mostly good stuff, but seeing and hearing one, sitting at one, it just puts the spell over you complete.

Its a mechanically complex instrument so lets say a mom and pop, or even Guitar Center (bwahahaha!) has some floor models. Keeping it up to snuff and in tune will require a knowledgeable person to attend to it as well as potential buyers. They may not have to be there full time. There could be a rep for whatever brand there once a week to maintain the steel, as well as be available by appointment to address serious inquiries? I don't know. It's tough to balance the economic realities and profitability factors with our idealized desires, but I think there is plenty of room for innovative marketing and sales.
It's interesting when I think about it, but I haven't thought much about it before.


I think there are a lot of guys and gals like me, who have played other instruments, but have been captivated by the pedal steel a little later in life, for whatever reason. There are younger people who are interested, or who might become interested, if exposed to the instruemnt. I think there is a lot of steel left for the music world to hear and when times are tough, nothing helps the cryin' like the steel.
-Dan

[David Anderson]

If experienced players will take the time to read a thread I would assume they would take the time to look at a particuler area of the forum. Perhaps if it was moderated properly, thwt would help.

I understand that clubs exist, , but wonder if that caters more to people who are already playing. I am thinking of ways that players can expose the instrument to new people and educate musicians on how the steel works and relates to other insteuments like the guitar.

I think if music stores, and I'm talking about independantly owned shops, can look at it from the perspective of a nich market that can seperate them from other stores, it might be attractive. It takes a person who plays to go in and discuss it with them, be excited about it, and reinforce the idea that this is a way to increase traffic for them. Sell strings, bars, picks, tuners, amps, etc. Possibly consider working with a store to help them aquire some used steels to rent. The incentive for the store is more business and thus more profitability, the incentive for the player promoting is to see the steel community grow!

I totally understand the issue of profit for a manufacturer and thus a music store. Peavey comes to mind because they sell steel amps are familier with the steel market. Maybe producing the next starter steel is not the answer. I totally understand it being detrimental having sub par instruments on the market. I wonder how many people started playing steel because they could afford a Carter Starter and could find them in every major city, though. I think if a store started looking at building a rental pool and could work with a manufacturer to carry a pro model, it could work. It would take the incentive of a player coming in and working with the store and that is what I'm talking about. Starting on a grass roots level and cultivating a new community of players. This benefits, stores, manufactureres, and entities and clubs that promote steel shows. It benefits the lively hood of the instrument itself.

[David Anderson]

Anyways, long story short, I was the only person that showed up!

And there is the answer to why no music is going to take much of an interest.

But one person showed up! Maybe next time two or three! I know you are not going to convert every guitar player that walks through the door. But the more people exposed, the more players are born, the more bands that have steel, the more market for steel products, the more it grows!

How many more people are playing because Doug started building Stage
Ones, because Mickey Adams started posting videos, because people like Bob take time to run this forum. It's a labor of love first, I guess my point is, there are a lot of players out there, that have the time and the know how to start doing things on a grass roots level to grow the steel guitar community.

[Alan Berdoulay]

I think the instrument would be well served by promoting the lap steel........like in the days of the Hawaiian craze. How many old timers started on lap steel? They're affordable, easy to make beginning music with, portable and provide a lot of insight into why the pedals were added. Many kids back in the day started on a lap steel before they progressed to standard guitar. Makes sense. For an aspiring psg player, you'll learn many of the techniques required by starting on a lap steel. Simple, cheap and one couldn't help but want a pedal guitar once they're hooked on those steely sounds.

[Bob Hoffnar]

David,


I have found over the years as a full time player that the absolute best way to promote the instrument is to get out on the bandstand and have fun playing it. Then be helpful to anybody who is interested.

Your issues are certainly valid but your perspective is naive. As a community pedalsteel players have been working on all of this very seriously for quite some time. For one issue look into what Carter was doing with the Magnum and Starter. Also check out the events section and go to a steel jam or show near you. Lots of great players very near by.

[Stuart Legg]

Until the government gives PSGs away like phones and you can get a student loan the enthusiasm
to get into PSG is going to remain a cost prohibitive deal breaker.
The noob will do fine without changing anything on the forum when folks here will lighten up and redefine their anal view of what is good.
I’d much rather go see and hear a noob playing in tune, playing some pads when needed, play nothing when need and a simple clean intro, solo and outro.
Nothing irritates me more than a guy showing up with his Franklin pedal, Crawford Cluster and trying to dazzle everybody by overplaying in a Mom and Pop band

[Scott Duckworth]

When people look for a "hobby" today, they want instant gratification. Pedal Steel (or even Steel) takes work.

We are seeing the same thing in amateur radio. A lot of people will get that entry level license, but don't take the next steps to open the hobby fully to them selves.

[Dave Mudgett]

As Richard says, this has all been discussed numerous times previously. My take:

1. We don't need another section - especially because of what Richard says, but also because the forum is already split into too many sub-forums now. Better for new players to just ask a question in the correct section and open it up for general discussion.

2. Steel guitar in general, and especially pedal steel, has always been, and probably will always be, a specialty instrument for fairly obvious reasons - cost, complexity, limited broad understanding of the instrument, and so on. But there's an unusual camaraderie among those who do play, we do what we can.

3. Forget about most music stores carrying pedal steels. Unless the owners or main sales people play themselves, it's pointless - and how many music stores do you know that have steel players working for them? Too much investment, too slow turns ratio, nobody to tune and demo them, nobody to set them up or fix them when some knucklehead comes in and tightens up all the nylons or messes around with the undercarriage. Plenty of regular guitar stores deal with cool old lap steels, but not pedal steels, and there are good reasons. I would get some in when I was running my vintage guitar store (before I started playing), but that was only because I personally was interested and I kept finding them at guitar shows reasonable. But if I hadn't been interested in learning to play and work on them myself, no way.

I don't think we need to fret about this kind of stuff - pedal steel is not going anywhere. I agree with what Bob said - "... the absolute best way to promote the instrument is to get out on the bandstand and have fun playing it." Bingo. Talk, promotion, meetings, and so on are cheap. We're mostly talking to each other, which is fine, but not gonna promote the instrument outside. Get it out in the real world with regular people, playing in a band.

[Richard Sinkler]

I wonder how many people started playing steel because they could afford a Carter Starter and could find them in every major city, though.

On the other side of the coin, look at how many got discouraged or quit because of the Carter Starter, Maverick, etc... The key point is to get a low cost instrument into the hands of a new player that isn't going to cause frustration.

We had a good sized, very popular (a competitor to Guitar Center) music store that used to have a Carter Starter on their floor. I went in and asked to sit and play it (they knew me as a long time pedal steel player). I got it in tune and played a little. Not one person came over to check it out. The manager of the store asked my opinion of it, said in the couple of months he had it, that nobody showed any interest in it. I kept my opinion about the quality to myself. He then said he was trying to get Carter to take that "piece of crap" (his words) back. I convinced him that some day, someone would buy it and at some point it disappeared from the store. He either sent it back or someone bought it, but I don't know of anyone off hand that has a Starter here locally.

[Wally Davis]

What we have been doing with our steel guitar jams that we have Dave. You need to attend them. It's for every level. Friendships are made and all try to help each other. That's with everything from guitars, to licks, gear, etc. It has evolved more than what you think in St. Louis. If you don't participate, you don't make connections. I think that we will have one in the near future.

[Richard Damron]

My take on this is quite simple: -STOP playing the same 24 tunes over and over and over ad nauseum! It should be quite obvious that the audience is quite limited - or haven't you noticed?

The musical library has thousands of tunes which could be played on the PSG but aren't. How do you folks expect to garner a wider audience when all that they hear is 97 renditions of "Mansion On The Hill"?

Don't get me wrong - I love my real "country" as much as the next person but it gets painfully boring to hear but a small selection of tunes played by every steeler in the world. Granted, there are a few who would venture outside of the time capsule that we have created for ourselves - Jim, Buck, Mike, Robert and a few others dare to add jazz, classical, and church music into the mix. I definitely do not like rock-n-roll but it IS a musical form. Why in hell not play it? It should go without saying - if an audience is there then why not cater to their musical tastes and increase the overall exposure of the instrument? In the case of rock-n-roll, the worst that can happen is that the audiences prefer some young clown mindlessly shredding the hell out of a Fender Tele and find the PSG too "tame" for them.

In short: - Bust the hell out of the mold in which steelers find themselves and venture out into the wide - much wider - world of music! Ya just might find a few listeners out there who dig what yer doin'!

Richard

[Ken Metcalf]

My take on this is quite simple: -STOP playing the same 24 tunes over and over and over ad nauseum!

In short: - Bust the hell out of the mold in which steelers find themselves and venture out into the wide - much wider - world of music! Ya just might find a few listeners out there who dig what yer doin'!

Richard

That's what I'm talking about.. Kick the fuzz on that thing!

[Donny Hinson]

My take on this is quite simple: -STOP playing the same 24 tunes over and over and over ad nauseum!... In short: - Bust the hell out of the mold in which steelers find themselves and venture out into the wide - much wider - world of music! Ya just might find a few listeners out there who dig what yer doin'!

Richard

Precisely! Why, there's gotta be a dozen or two young people in this country alone that like pedal steel!

If there is little variety on the stage, it will be likewise in the audience.

[David Anderson]

What we have been doing with our steel guitar jams that we have Dave. You need to attend them. It's for every level. Friendships are made and all try to help each other. That's with everything from guitars, to licks, gear, etc. It has evolved more than what you think in St. Louis. If you don't participate, you don't make connections. I think that we will have one in the near future.

Totally will Wally, thanks! This wasn't a comment necessarily for St. Louis. I have seen quite a few new players on the scene in the last few years. It was more just a thought concerning the future of the instrument in general and some of the threads I have read recently made me think of it. It wasn't meant to be anything but positive. I wasn't ranting or complaining, more just thinking out loud. This thread really didn't get the reaction I had thought it might. I apologize for stirring things up.

[Zane King]

Good thread David. I believe indeed all of what you bring up as been discussed fairly in depth at one point or another here on the SGF. HOWEVER, just because many of these ideas have been cussed and discussed does NOT mean they are not good ideas. It also does not mean that we should just go quietly into the abyss. In my opinion, the overall state of the instrument itself is that there is growth in popularity. I think the only thing that really hurts that argument is that most steel guitar shows are as Richard Damron puts it a nauseum of the same old 24 tunes over and over again. Thus, many folks have just stopped coming. Plus, with so many shows over the country the larger shows suffer. Thus, we really have no true "extravaganza" of steel guitar like many of us have experienced in the past.

NOW WITH ALL OF THAT SAID, I applaud your ideas and say let's stay in pursuit of making steel guitar known to more and more would be players.

Good job!

ZK

[Mat Rhodes]

I don't think it matters what any of us do as players. It seems like the role of the traditional instrument player is slowly getting phased out in favor of software-based music applications. There's a lot of instructional/learning support in them as well. I stumbled upon an episode of Shark Tank about a week or so ago where one of the applicants featured a Miso ukulele app. Amazing stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa2_rjhmrtg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7PD8-WasJk

The steel's unique timbres and nuances are becoming programmable. I'm willing to bet that hardware controllers will be the only mechanisms that will be more affordable than what we're used to seeing.

http://www.orangetreesamples.com/lap-steel-guitar

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/nashvillewire

http://rekkerd.org/wavelore-instruments ... r-kontakt/

http://www.wavelore.com/products.php?product=WLPS

[Curt Trisko]

I think Matt is right about software-based music applications, but I disagree with his conclusion that it is shutting out players of traditional instruments. My intuition is that it will actually turn musicians-at-heart onto those instruments. If a person really likes the sound of pedal steel, do you really think that they'd just be satisfied replicating its sound instead of actually sitting behind it?

[Mark van Allen]

It might be informative to remember that Scotty HAS tried to feature rock, jazz, and other styles on the main convention stage over the years, to have them resoundingly rejected by the majority of attendees. Sets by Buddy Cage, Paul Franklin, and others have resulted in mass exodus from the convention hall at various times. It may or may not explain a lot to realize that some of the same folks who bemoan the "demise" of steel culture, or lack of interest from a younger generation, went out of their way to protest the inclusion of "new" or different styles in "their" convention. Sad and counter-productive. Perhaps over time there will be more acceptance and support of alternative performance and a concomitant resurgence in convention attendance.

[Mat Rhodes]

David's original proposal was basically how to grow the PSG industry. I'm sure that if a dedicated newbie had the budget to invest in a new or used PSG, then an app would be just an introduction. You can't stop a determined student.

My use of the words "phase out" is probably off-the-mark. I remember reading similar discussions of the current barriers and proposed solutions as far back as "The Steel Guitarist Magazine" (late 70's - early 80's) and "Steel Guitar World" (early 90's - 2000). There are definitely more players, but I doubt the ratio of Newbies-Per-Year versus the General PSG Population has changed all that much. Of course, I have no way to quantify it. I do know that in spite of 30+ years of effort, the same discussions and concerns keep arising.

If cost and difficulty are the major barriers to entry, then an entrepreneur type (where's Bill?) could get the controllers affordably made in...(insert your favorite country with a low standard of living) and develop the instructional/modeling software that goes with it. These days, it's getting harder to tell the difference between samples and the real thing. A kid/young adult who doesn't have the budget for a real PSG could still make due with the electronic model. And by that time, if he/she wants to be a performer, I wonder if a future audience would really even care whether the "instrument" is real or synthetic.

Only time will tell. I never thought when I was a teenager that canned tracks, software music, and vocal-only "dance" performances would be acceptable to a paying audience, but here we are.