Is the skill level dropping off?

[Larry Behm]

Talking to a few other old musicians it seems like the skill level and attention to detail is dropping off the longer time goes on.

Banjo and fiddle players who have played for 40 years had Earl Scruggs and Kenny Baker (and countless others greats) to pattern their playing after. Many may have known them, jammed with with them, taken lessons or classes with them, married their oldest daughter, well you get the picture.

Steelers for years were under this same umbrella. Going to conventions, taking classes, the Forum here, and on and on.

Well guess what, some of these opportunites (sp) are not there today. Now players are learning from other players who MAY have learned from other players who MAY have had the time to really spend learning the details of a style etc, etc or not. So it seems from fiddle to banjo to steel to dobro that the techniques are diminishing and I am so afraid that much could be becoming lost as we "pass it on down" from generation to generation.

Thoughts please.

Larry Behm

[Bob Hoffnar]

If anything the skill levels of younger players seem to be improving as far as I can tell. I get my ass kicked by guys in there 20's a few times a week. We don't hear much from the young and amazing players on the forum because they are busy having exciting professional lives. We will hear from them later when they slow down and and feel the need to complain about how the world is going down the crapper

[Mark van Allen]

Great thread and question, Larry. While it's apparent that current society and media encourage the mindset of disposable and "get-it-now" mentality, and there are certainly many musicians trying to take the easy path, I think there will always be those who aspire to the highest level their personal time, commitment and skill set can provide.

Over the years with my own students I've seen many who just wanted to learn the simplest song, just to be playing steel... some who really didn't want to learn anything at all beyond the basics required to be able to add steel to their onstage bag, and some who were obviously seeking technique and musical knowledge as a foundation for a multi-disciplined approach to a lifetime of study.

I see it with other instruments as well, some of the young fiddle and guitar players I've played with are just hacking at it, while there are others who have an amazingly mature command of their instrument at a young age. In fact, I think exposure to the various disciplines involved and the eventual obviousness of the time and commitment required to "get good", as well as the admiration other musicians and fans have for the more accomplished players, may inspire many of the newbies to re-evaluate how much time and energy they are willing to invest in anything they want to be good at.
Just one reason it's such a tragedy that so many musical programs have been removed from public school.

Even though it looks kind of bleak sometimes, I think there'll always be a core group of players who look to the past and invest the time to build on what came before.

And a great post, Bob!

[Darrell Criswell]

In the early seventies bands typically played in clubs from Monday to Saturday night. I talked with people in the Fort Worth area and said some clubs used to have three bands a day (lunch, dinner, late night). I remember reading an article where Darrell McCall said he had to work three jobs a day to have enough to eat. Suddenly about the mid to late seventies the clubs went to having bands Tues-Sat. Things in terms of live music at clubs has been doing downhill since. Today almost everybody plays weekends and usually not every weekend.

It seems to me the best practice would be playing with a band every night, so I wonder how bands today can get the practice guys used to. Of course practicing wrong a lot doesn't improve someone's abilities also.

[Tony Glassman]

Larry - your skill level is still pretty high. On the other hand, mine is bordering on nonexistent.

[W. Van Horn]

I agree with Bob! Also it's easy enough here in south Texas to play very often - especially in the dance hall scene. And churches, restaurants, public/private events and sessions.

[Len Amaral]

It's a different musical world these days. I'll always be a steel player even though I don't play out any longer. People want instant gratification and I heard someone state it takes two years just to suck on the pedal steel. No music stores carry them and I agree the live band situation Monday to Saturday use to be the norm but DUI laws, karaoke and DJ's changed the landscape.

Sorry to be so negative but in SE Mass it's a waste land for live music.

[David Anderson]

I don't think I would say that the skill level is dropping off. I think we as students have many more outlets to hear and see examples of how to play many different styles via the web. We also have more tools available to help guide us in the direction we choose to go.

Instant gradification may be at play for us, but what's wrong with that? Is the goal to learn the correct way to play or is the goal to stay interested and keep the hunger to learn? If everyone learned how to play guitar via Mel Bay ( and there is absolutly nothing wrong with learning that method), we wouldn't have so many inspiring facets of music expressed with the instrument. By people picking it up and trying it as apposed to being told how to play. Think of players like Michael Hedges, Django Reinhardt, Les Paul, Chet Atkins, Frank Zappa, etc...these musicians broke the mold, not because they followed the crowd.

It is unfortunate that live performance isn't as available to players as it once was. I think the combination of honing one's skills on the gig and the ability to use todays technology to learn would be the ultimate combination to learning new facets of the instrument.

The bottome line is there will be more great players, more ground breakers, more innovators on the instrument and nothing will change that. The more excepting we are to new styles and new methods to learn and play, the more new players we will cultivate to learn the pedal steel.

[Bill L. Wilson]

America, has been Dumbed down to the point of totally losing its ability to learn anything constructive. I love Allen Jackson, but for crying out loud son, buy a pair of britches, without holes in the knees. And a 3note keyboard line, with an electronic drum track, and some goofball trying to get as many cuss words into 4bars as he can. Even the band at church, has 3guitars, and they're all playing rhythm, not one lead instrument to take a ride. Kids today have musical heroes, that are about as musical as chalk scraping on a blackboard. Then again, there's probably a hand full of kids coming up, with a good influence from an old family member who plays steel, that wants to learn. Hopefully they'll carry the banner of great steel players into the future. Thanks for lettin' me vent, I feel better now.

[David Anderson]

It's one thing to want to preserve a stye of music that you feel is on the verge of dying out, but to stifle a new player's (or listener's) style of music is detrimental to the growth of new things to come.

What did traditional bluegrass players think about people like John Hartford or Peter Rowan or even Earl Scruggss when bands like Old and in the Way and The Earl Scruggs Review emerged? Traditional musicians who first heard the new fusion sounds of Miles Davis? When bands like the Beatles or The Beach Boys became popular? And think of the musicians that contributed to the music of Brian Wilson or John Lennon let alone those artist's own musicianship.

The music that the "kids" listen to today will help influence the new styles that will be created tomorrow. I'm sure I drove my parents nuts with the music I listened to in my youth, long before I played in a bluegrass band or learned to play steel guitar. My versitility of style is what allows me to get more work and be able to communicate with new musicians.

The steel guitar isn't that old. Players like Jerry Garcia, Paul Franklin, Robert Randolph, or even Speedy West have given the instrument a new light for fresh ears by not being pigeon holed by tradition during their time.

[Craig Schwartz]

I have one fact that may lighten the subject :

Any young player that wants to make a go at it, has one thing in mind on steel
and that is to whatever touches their hearts the most.

If it werent for all the older players, they would have never had the oppurtunity to feel anything so beautiful sounding ...

Most youngens want to express what they think is great sounding to the world !

could we see it any other way ?
No Sir !!!
It would`nt be any fun.

[David Anderson]

Well said, Craig!

[Mike Archer]

well I see the point made here
in some cases that may be true
however I have a young student that comes here for
help and guidence and he is not one to
rush through and half do it
hes going to be a great player
he listens and already has a great skill level
at 62 I still spend plenty of time workin to be a better player myself after 30 years
but I do see what you mean by a droping off...

[Dave Grafe]

A sixty-year-old ball player, now that's a skill level that has dropped off, but a sixty-year-old steel player who practices just keeps getting better. Except for the part about remembering how the intros and turnarounds go, we may have a problem there...

[Dave Hopping]

There are plenty of wankers who can sit down in the living room and play faster,louder,and(sometimes) smarter than all the Old Masters combined.Shred? You bet.Play to complement the ensemble,the performance,and the song? Not happening.Why? There has to be the opportunity to gig often locally for decent money for a group of players to learn onstage interaction and there just isn't.If there were,all those wankers could and would make great use of all the mentoring that now is wasted

[Gene Jones]

I don't know if there is any scientific evidence to show that current steel players skill levels are diminishing, but, if that is true, new players are their own executioner, because there is such an unlimited amount of learning materials available today that was not available to older learners.

Older players (pre-1950) only had the radio (Grand Ole Opry) to listen to, and a cheesy song book with a string raising nut from a music store showing the chords to such great songs as Aloha Oh and Old Shep.

I believe that today's players are more advanced early in their career than their elders were. There are many great young players on the scene today.

[Dennis Lee]

I think there is just not enough opportunity for pedal steel appreciators/musicians to play in a live venue. I get to play once-a-month with a group of good musicians, for no pay I might add. We do it for those that come to listen. That is our payment. Live country bands or bands with an application for psg are few and far between anymore. It's either canned music or something live that I cannot relate to.

I'm a part-time closet psg player at best. I still work a full-time occupation. When I get home, I'm often tired, and then I feel guilty for not spending more time in the seat at my guitar. I never had any illusions about being great, it started out as something I loved the sound of, and it's therapy to try to elicit any sound that gives me that feeling I had that brought me to the steel in the first place. I thank Larry for being my mentor, spending time with me in the beginning. Larry is one man who appreciates the pedal steel for how it makes him feel. I am of that same mindset.

Find someone, no matter where, to just play together with. Noodle around, experiment. It's very rewarding and a good learning experience. Don't know if I contributed at all to this article or idea, but my two cents.

[Asa Brosius]

I'm with Gene-the prevalence of youtube in the last decade can't be discounted. It's almost all there- slow it down and learn some old Hughey, or Robert Randolph licks from two nights ago. Whatever you want. I find Jeff Newman pretty boring and his instruction limiting- countless others swear by it and have been inspired. Point is, whatever style you want to learn is at your fingertips. On the other hand, this helps create a culture of perpetual distraction. Arguably, practice (undeniably the key) may suffer.
Also, it bears mentioning that attention to detail is wildly subjective, and (hopefully) dictated by intention.

[Cal Sharp]

I'd say the skill level is diminishing these days. Playing live with pros's teaches you to be a musician, if you pay attention, whereas playing with YouTube videos in your bedroom just teaches you how to play a bunch of licks that you may or may not be able to successfully incorporate into a live band situation, and live band situations seem to be on the wane for a long time now.

[Barry Blackwood]

I don't know if the actual skill level is dropping off, I think we're at least as capable as we ever were to the task at hand. However, as time passes priorities are constantly changing according to the dictates of society. I don't feel that the same incentives we used to have in the past exist anymore, therefore interest is diminishing. Of course, there will always be exceptions to the rule..

[Bud Angelotti]

IMHOP - The skill level is not dropping off.
The music has changed and manner of learning has changed.
Thats just the way of the world. It's Ok.

[Donny Hinson]

What Cal said.

[Carl Mesrobian]

I think one needs both on stage with pros, and offstage to work on stuff. One cannot get better doing only one of those - just my opinion. And everyone can get better! As far as busy lives, if it means practicing at 6 in the morning before taking the kids to school, working, or jogging, so be it

Steel guitar clubs offer an opportunity for a player to rehearse in a group setting before sitting in with the pros on stage. A smart player will know when he/she is ready to try a live audience.

[Wally Moyers]

I'd say the skill level is diminishing these days. Playing live with pros's teaches you to be a musician, if you pay attention, whereas playing with YouTube videos in your bedroom just teaches you how to play a bunch of licks that you may or may not be able to successfully incorporate into a live band situation, and live band situations seem to be on the wane for a long time now.

I agree with Cal also.. Last night I was watching Terry Bethel and thinking how his playing should be documented for future players... I played my first steel gig two days after my Dad gave me my first steel lesson when I was 17.. I was a decent guitar player but had never player steel. Now for 43 years I'v played live with bands for money... Along with some serious woodshedding, playing for real is the best teacher... It's harder to do these days but you got to get out of your practice room sometime if your ever going to be a real player...

[Joe Gall]

Well, I pray every night that one of you "old" guys would move in next door to me and teach me how to play this damn thing, but so far, not happening! Depression over my vision loss is setting in and not being able to make any forward progress with this PSG is not helping. I would give anything to be just average with this thing at this point!